10" 357 max recoil vs 14" 7-30 waters - Graybeard Outdoors
 
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post #1 of 10 (permalink) Old 12-01-2019, 08:35 AM Thread Starter
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Default 10" 357 max recoil vs 14" 7-30 waters

I have been shooting a 14" 7-30 waters for a while and wishing to move to something a bit shorter, I grabbed a 10" 357 max (factory barrel) recently. Then it occurred to me I really didn't know much about a 357 max, especially recoil.
I know its subjective but can anyone give me a general idea of the difference of 10" 357 max recoil when compared to 14" 7-30 waters.
In the absence of any search info, I could always load something and see for myself but thought I would ask here first.

TIA

"My two most favorite people are Navy Corpsmen and Marine medivac helicopter pilots" - MEJ 1967.
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post #2 of 10 (permalink) Old 12-01-2019, 05:55 PM
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I am pretty recoil tolerant. However, my Contender with a 10" 357 max barrel and full power loads is in close running for most painful gun status. Last time I fired a dozen or so full power rounds, my wrist was sore for days. They were either my 1750 fps 180s, or my 2100 fps 160s.

In comparison, my 14" barrels in 30 Herrett, 30-30 and 357 max do kick quite a bit, but they do not seem to bother me.

My 357 Max Dan Wesson revolver has more muzzle blast but is not even on my list of heavy recoil guns.

For your gun, loading with a slightly faster powder (say blue dot) and going for a few hundred fps less will reduce recoil as will adding a scope.

I also have a 80-1/2" barrel in 45 LC that I used to shoot with Ruger / TC only loads. It is the other candidate for most painful gun.

I know that you said you already have the gun, but for anyone else considering a less than 14" 357 Max, here is my standard "soapbox" discussion of the better choice.

For a 10" or less, I have repeated recommended the 360 Dan Wesson as a better round than the max.

In a short gun, the Max is way more powerful than the 357 magnum primarily due to the higher allowed pressure. Although a 357 case can be loaded very hot and approach 357 maximum performance (look up 353 Casull), I will not do it as I worry that one of my rounds could end up is some wimpy 357 revolver.

The 357 Max is not good for shooting with 38 special or 357 magnum cases (the bullet is out of the case before it gets to the throat). The 357 max is not all that great when loaded down (too much free space in the case). The Max is not efficient in a 10" or less, a lot of powder just goes to a bigger muzzle flash.

The 360 Dan Wesson gives you close to optimum powder capacity and allows very high pressure loads. I would expect available velocity to be real close to the Max and possibly more than your wrist is happy with. These top velocity loads will cost you less given it will take a lot less powder for the same speed and they will produce less muzzle blast.

With medium and heavy weight bullets seated long in 357 mag cases, your accuracy and velocity should be equal to the same loads in 360 DW brass. Again, I do not recommend really hot loads in mag cases. Your chances of getting good accuracy with 38 special brass is much better in the 360 DW than in the max.

You will need to go to Starline to get brass for either the 360 or the max.

Last edited by P Flados; 12-01-2019 at 06:08 PM.
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post #3 of 10 (permalink) Old 12-01-2019, 06:22 PM
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Loaded to it's potential a 10 inch 357MAX with 180's will get your attention in the contender. Compared to a full house 44MAG with 240's in a 10 inch it is still a ***** cat however. FWIW, You can safely down load your max to 357MAG velocities if you choose to. Of course you can split the difference to whatever level you are happy with also. I have shot thousands of 158 and 180 grain cast bullets through mine at 357MAG velocities with ZERO issues and great accuracy, you just have to use MAX brass and somewhat bulky "shotgun" powder. I like Herco for such loads in max brass. Nice thing about them type loads is your brass will last nearly forever if you do not flare the brass more than required to start the bullets.

When I want to get mean I use cast gas checked 180s and either Vhit N-120 or Alliant MP-300 for my hunting loads. Them loads are zippy and the laws of physics come into play, so I do not shoot a ton of them. That is serious loads for deer mostly. I recommend a light scope and Burris Z rings with the plastic inserts for loads like that. Heavy scopes and cheap rings will not leave you happy eventually.

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post #4 of 10 (permalink) Old 12-02-2019, 09:44 AM Thread Starter
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Thank you gentlemen. I appreciate both your comments and each of your first sentences alone spoke volumes. This caliber, in a 10" barrel anyway, sounds like something my mildly arthritic wrist and elbow would not want to play with.
Too bad because I not only have the barrel but brass, bullets, dies, primers and powder. You have saved me from a needless trial loading.


I'll maybe fall back to a 10" 7tcu, at least some of my 7x30 waters components will work.


Thanks again.

"My two most favorite people are Navy Corpsmen and Marine medivac helicopter pilots" - MEJ 1967.
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post #5 of 10 (permalink) Old 12-02-2019, 03:01 PM
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A 357 magnum velocity load with a 140 to 160 gr bullet should be ok for most shooters.

Just less should be ok for even someone slightly more sensitive.

If you have a flake powder anywhere in the Unique to 800X range of burn rates, start with listed charges for the 357 Magnum (you loads will be slower due to the extra empty space) and work up until you are comfortable.

And just to re-state the well known warning. Do not load H110 or WW 296 at below published starting load data. This includes using 357 mag data for loading in a 357 max case. I may be overly cautious, but I apply the same to the other ball powders in the same burn rate range.
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post #6 of 10 (permalink) Old 12-02-2019, 09:08 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks.
Here in rural southern Appalachia components (mostly power) are hard to come by. The nearest source is 90 miles away and stock is limited.

The only pistol powder I currently have is H4227. My bullet are 180g HDY XTP HP.

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post #7 of 10 (permalink) Old 12-03-2019, 02:04 AM
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H4227 is one of the better "slow magnum pistol powders" for downloading. It works for light loads, but it may be dirty. Heck, there are even 38 special loads with this powder.

I have Hornady Silhouette Loading Data for the IMR version of this powder in a Max. Velocities for 180s range from 1250 fps up to 1500 fps in a 10.5" gun.

I understand limited local supplies.

I cast my own bullets, and I by bulk orders of primers and powder to save on Hazmat charges.

Last edited by P Flados; 12-03-2019 at 02:26 AM.
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post #8 of 10 (permalink) Old 12-03-2019, 01:46 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by P Flados View Post

I have Hornady Silhouette Loading Data for the IMR version of this powder in a Max. Velocities for 180s range from 1250 fps up to 1500 fps in a 10.5" gun.

Are these cast?


Quote:
I cast my own bullets,...........
I don't cast but I tried some that were given to me a while back in a long gun. It didn't go so well but I liked the price

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post #9 of 10 (permalink) Old 12-03-2019, 02:03 PM
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The 7-30 Waters is usually a 120 gr. bullet leaving the scene at around Mach II
The 357 Maximum is usually about 25-50% more projectile mass at a slightly lower velocity.
The consideration of barrel length and added weight from a super 14 to a 10" Bbl would favor the 7-30 Waters.
As for the 357 Maximum in a 10" barrel vs. 7-30 Waters in a super 14 .... the Maximum has a bit more recoil but can be loaded to suit the shooter.
A compromising solution to this would be to shoot the 30 Herrett!

Think twice, shoot once...
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post #10 of 10 (permalink) Old 12-11-2019, 11:12 PM
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I personally.. prefer the 7mmTCU
In any barrel length.
It's just simply a very good , do everything cartridge.
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