9mm - Page 9 - Graybeard Outdoors
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post #81 of 104 (permalink) Old 12-17-2016, 04:40 AM
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"The saddest part of this entire thread is that I must take from it the fact I am more proficient with big calibers than you are with the little ones. Also, that you are in doubt as to what you would be capable of when called on to fight.

I am outspoken; some of you can't accept that from a female. I think you base some of your opinions on the lie that a girl cannot know more than you about what has always been a masculine subject. No way can a female be more assertive or confident. No way will you heed her advice. It is automatically incorrect. "


I think its more of matter of you jumping to conclusions. NOBODY here ran you down or showed predudice because your a women. I know a few women that can handle a gun just fine. My comments would be made to a man just as much as to you. NOBODY knows how they will react in a real gunfight that hasn't been in one. Its easy to claim you would do this or that but you will never know until your under fire. I know a lot of guys that have told me that they went into there first combat thinking they were going to be Audy Murphy and found out that they almost wet themselves.


Its good that you are confident in your target shooting capabilitys. I shoot ppc and in our league I'm the third best shooter. My best friend is the top dog and his daughter is #2. that is out of about a 100 people. She can shoot, no doubt about it. Does that make her the one id want at my side in a shootout. **** no. Id much rather have an average shooter that's BEEN in combat that I know can keep his cool.


Ive been in a ton of SIMULATED combat. Ranges, pop ups, shooting houses ect. But I wont stand here and say how I'm going to do in REAL combat because ive never had a bullet flying by me in any of those senerios and I was free to consentrate on my shooting without having to worry about taking a slug to the head. Man or women its just talk unless you've been there and done that. Some of the best shots in the country would go to peace's in a real combat situation. Yes training helps but it sure doesn't come close to simulating the stress involved it a shootout.


As to experience with what you consider a big bore handgun, ive been shooting 45acps for going on 40 years. Ive put hundreds of thousands of them down range. It isn't my first rodeo either. Not everyone that is a toting the 9s here does it because they cant handle a bigger gun. I own a number of 44 mags 45 colts and 475 and 500 linebaughs and have shot them again for MANY years. The 45acp is a relatively mild low powered round. It doesn't bowl people off there feet. It doesn't do massive internal damage and is mild recoiling and easy to master. you don't get any token hairs on your chest for mastering it.


My 13 year old granddaughter shoots mine all the time and does just as well with it as she does with a 9mm. As a matter of last year was her first year in ppc competition and she did real well. She shot an average of 283. Not expert class but pretty darned good for a 13 year old girl. She is probably in the top 20 percentile in competition around here. What does she shoot. My Kimber Gold match 45acp. Would I want her beside me in a shooting (even if she wasn't my granddaughter) **** NO. The ability to shoot accurately is a very small part of the big picture in a situation like that.


Id bet its rare to find a trained man that has had REAL experience that can recall even using his sights on a handgun in combat. So I will say this kindly and don't take it personaly but you don't have a clue any more then I do how your going to perform in a shootout or combat. Theres only a couple on this forum who do. In some ways I'm very jealous of them. They've been measured and know. I probably will never know. The rest of the chest pumping people on internet fourms are living a walter middy life. bottom line is either you've been there and done that or you don't have a clue. I'm in the latter side of that sentence. Unless you've been holding back on us so are you and that the case whether your man or a women.


But don't think for a second that because you like and have mastered the 45acp that someone that likes the 9mm is a second rate shooter or is crazy for using a smaller gun then you choose. Don't make a statement like ""The saddest part of this entire thread is that I must take from it the fact I am more proficient with big calibers than you are with the little ones." Because its you poking with the stick not any of the guys on here. you don't have a clue as to how you stack up against me or anyone else on here with a handgun. Nobodys treating you as a second class citizen or any less of a shooter because your a women. I didn't see a single reference to anything like that. That is all in your head. But also don't think your going to get any special treatment here because you are. So don't bother with the "I'm a poor picked on girl on a mans forum thing" I'm a moderator and if I saw anyone doing that they would be cut off at the knees very fast.

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post #82 of 104 (permalink) Old 12-17-2016, 04:50 AM
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by the way my answer to which Id rather be hit with is non of the above!

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post #83 of 104 (permalink) Old 12-17-2016, 07:37 AM
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Originally Posted by littlecanoe View Post
It might be interesting to look at it from a different point of view. If you had to choose, which caliber would you choose to be shot with?
Why would you choose that caliber?

lc
My experience tells me it is better to give, than receive. But if I must choose, I would want to be shot with a 150 fps "nerf projectile". A goofy answer, for a somewhat goofy question. No offense LC.

Honestly the question is A little silly after personally viewing up close 100 plus real gunshot wounds.
Had you rather be beaten to death, or hung?😨 I've seen both versions of that question too many times also. Both were rather gloomy.

Every one wants a "wonder bullet", and some here, AS IN THE PAST FEW "DECADES", think they've found it. So be it. The ammo manufacturers are cheering, and the marketers got a raise. Put a lethal, or desperate sounding name on the little box of 20, have a gun rag writers testify in a gun rag about the "devastating damage" to the ballistic jeletin full of animal bones, and they'll pay double. And they do..🤗

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post #84 of 104 (permalink) Old 12-17-2016, 08:53 AM
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Dee

Your answer was what I was shooting for. While not a retorical question I asked with that in mind. Like you I'm gonna choose a nerf or even a paint ball.

In my case I have chosen to carry a nine and have looked for what I can carry as the best ammo. I did the same with the 45 when I carried it. I've always prepared myself for multiple shots if it ever came down to it. I thought this way with the 45 and now with the nine.

Hunting for a good part of my life has taught me that there is no wonder bullet and usually no wonder shot. I take that over to a defense situation. Now, if a guy could get the attacker to quarter for a clean neck shot. ......

lc

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Last edited by littlecanoe; 12-17-2016 at 08:55 AM.
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post #85 of 104 (permalink) Old 12-17-2016, 08:57 AM
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Originally Posted by lloyd smale View Post
by the way my answer to which Id rather be hit with is non of the above!
Yes sir!

My answer too!

Fundamentalism: The sneaking suspicion that somewhere, someone, might be having fun.
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post #86 of 104 (permalink) Old 12-17-2016, 12:34 PM
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9 pages on a 9mm bullet - just amazing.

In post #17 I attempted to show the difference in actual wound channel - you know, where tissue actually gets destroyed.

In post #21 I attempted to show where muzzle energy is nothing more than a myth.

In post 59 you can see photos of what modern bullet designs are capable of doing - would I rely on that type of bullet performance every time? Sure would.

Just like I rely on the primer to ignite every time, the powder to burn every time. This is what those bullets were made to do and they do it well every time. Maybe someone has seen a recently manufactured Gold Dot act as a solid, well, I'm sure someone has seen a Federal primer not ignite as well - pretty rare in my opinion.

Bigger is better everything else being equal - however, as everyone has said a 1,000 times - shot placement is KING.

When I shot rifle bench rest in the Hunter Division, I started out with a 6MM thinking it was the best choice. After seeing a number of targets with 6mm holes being a frog's hair from cutting the X or 10 ring - I decided to move up to the 308 Winchester. That did help in cutting the higher rings - however, you had to place your bullet in the right spot in order to make that "extra" diameter work for you. I did place in the Top 20 in the Nationals with a 308 Winchester, so it worked for me.

Same here relative to this thread, missing a major artery by 1/16th of an inch is still a miss - a bigger diameter projectile would sever what the smaller diameter bullet misses - same with these bonded jacketed hollow points, no difference.

Nothing is magical - it either takes correct shot placement or Luck - both are winners. I'll shut up now and just keep reading opinions, as we all have them.

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post #87 of 104 (permalink) Old 12-17-2016, 12:47 PM
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I love the 1911 45acp platform, from Govt to Commanders, carried them since early 70's. I have had 10mms, 40's in Glocks, like them too, but now too harsh. Within the last few years I have had to fall back to the 9mm because of arthritis in my right hand ( though I am ambidextrous I am legally blind in my left eye, what a world huh? ha) I can't control the 1911 like I need too so went to a Glock with perfect satisfaction. ( I still keep a lustful eye out for a deal on a LW Commander in 38 Super though! I'd put up with pain for it! ha Someday...)Though I tried them, I am not one of those who like the small 9mms , even they are too snappy for best control. My favorite shooter and smallest I like is the glock 19 and with todays ammo ( I favor Federal HST 147+P) in this platform, I find can shoot it well, and I have confidence in it. I listen to the guys who use 9mms in combat...multiple shots on target! My Force Recon Marine Son in Law has been in some thick 'doo-doo" in 2 tours in the sand box, I have other friends in LE and they all say they had no problems....but they didn't double tap and wait for results! I love the old saying, "what does a man do when you shoot him with a handgun? Pretty much what he was doing "before" you shot him with a handgun". Its wisdom to keep shooting until he "stops" what he was doing! That's why I love rifles and 12gas!

Last edited by RevJim; 12-17-2016 at 12:58 PM.
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post #88 of 104 (permalink) Old 12-17-2016, 01:00 PM
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Jim if you like the 9s and like the 1911 check out a sti Trojan in 9mm. I had one that I foolishly sold a few years ago. Probably the most accurate 1911 ive owned in any caliber and when you racked the slide youd swear it had ball bearing in it it was that smooth. By the way I agree with you totally. theres a 12guage and an ar15 loaded in the bedroom and another 12guage in the entry closet. A 12 guage is a STOPPER something that cant be said of any defensive handgun. Heck I once watched my buddy shoot a red stag with a 500 linebaugh and the stag kept eating and didn't even know it was hit till it fell over dead about 15 seconds later. Seen the same thing with buffalo. 45acps bowling people over is stuff for the movies.
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I love the 1911 45acp platform, from Govt to Commanders, carried them since early 70's. I have had 10mms, 40's in Glocks, like them too, but now too harsh. Within the last few years I have had to fall back to the 9mm because of arthritis in my right hand ( though I am ambidextrous I am legally blind in my left eye, what a world huh? ha) I can't control the 1911 like I need too so went to a Glock with perfect satisfaction. ( I still keep a lustful eye out for a deal on a LW Commander in 38 Super though! I'd put up with pain for it! ha Someday...)Though I tried them, I am not one of those who like the small 9mms , even they are too snappy for best control. My favorite shooter and smallest I like is the glock 19 and with todays ammo ( I favor Federal HST 147+P) in this platform, I find can shoot it well, and I have confidence in it. I listen to the guys who use 9mms in combat...multiple shots on target! My Force Recon Marine Son in Law has been in some thick 'doo-doo" in 2 tours in the sand box, I have other friends in LE and they all say they had no problems....but they didn't double tap and wait for results! I love the old saying, "what does a man do when you shoot him with a handgun? Pretty much what he was doing "before" you shot him with a handgun". Its wisdom to keep shooting until he "stops" what he was doing! That's why I love rifles and 12gas!

MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN! STEEL FOR TANKS NOT FENCES!!!

Last edited by lloyd smale; 12-17-2016 at 01:06 PM.
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post #89 of 104 (permalink) Old 12-17-2016, 09:43 PM
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I am outspoken; some of you can't accept that from a female.
Actually the guys on here have accepted with only minor grumbling, comments from you that they absolutely would not accept from a man. If a man came in here making some of those comments, he would be invited right quick to meet in person and back up those words.
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post #90 of 104 (permalink) Old 12-17-2016, 10:24 PM
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Originally Posted by wecsog View Post
actually the guys on here have accepted with only minor grumbling, comments from you that they absolutely would not accept from a man. If a man came in here making some of those comments, he would be invited right quick to meet in person and back up those words.
^^^^^^+1^^^^^^

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