Suddenly, more 16 gauge shells? - Page 3 - Graybeard Outdoors
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post #21 of 28 (permalink) Old 05-26-2017, 11:10 AM
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Originally Posted by mannyrock View Post
The classic side by sides are way way out of my price range.

Keeping my eye out for an early Fox Model B, in VG+ condition with double triggers and zero problems. Hard to find. That is the most I could ever afford.


Mannyrock
Fox Model B is a good, affordable option. I've seen good deals on A.H. Fox SXS 16 gauges but those are definitely more than a model B. The Lefever Nitro that was mentioned is another good one.

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post #22 of 28 (permalink) Old 05-26-2017, 01:33 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks for the info guys. I'm gonna go forth here and hi-jack my own thread.

I've never looked at a Lefever Nitro, until online today. To me, they look exactly like the Stevens 311s and 5100s. My problem with those is, that when you open the action, the action springs back and closes up a bit, and you can't slide the shells in unless you physically flex the action back open all of the way.

So, as to the Lefevers,

1. Do these have the same problems as the Stevens guns as far as opening?

2. And, what other problems to do they have?

3. How can they go for so cheap. I see apparently VG and VG+ 16 gauges online, no cracks, with buy-now prices of only $450 to $550. You can barely buy a junker Fox sxs made in the terrible quality years of the late 1970s for that. So, what gives as to the Lefevers?

Thanks for all info.

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post #23 of 28 (permalink) Old 05-26-2017, 07:11 PM
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It's been many years since I had a Nitro Special, but to the best of my recollection the action does NOT spring back partially when opened.

The reason they're reasonably priced is because, as of yet, there is no collector interest in them. And there is no "snob appeal" like with the Parkers, L.C. Smith, etc.

They were plain-Jane working guns. The action is the predecessor to the Ithaca NID (New Ithaca Double) and in no way is like the Savage/Stevens economy guns.
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post #24 of 28 (permalink) Old 05-28-2017, 05:33 PM
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Originally Posted by mannyrock View Post
Thanks for the info guys. I'm gonna go forth here and hi-jack my own thread.

I've never looked at a Lefever Nitro, until online today. To me, they look exactly like the Stevens 311s and 5100s. My problem with those is, that when you open the action, the action springs back and closes up a bit, and you can't slide the shells in unless you physically flex the action back open all of the way.

So, as to the Lefevers,

1. Do these have the same problems as the Stevens guns as far as opening?

2. And, what other problems to do they have?

3. How can they go for so cheap. I see apparently VG and VG+ 16 gauges online, no cracks, with buy-now prices of only $450 to $550. You can barely buy a junker Fox sxs made in the terrible quality years of the late 1970s for that. So, what gives as to the Lefevers?

Thanks for all info.

Mannyrock




When I read this manny I happened to have 2 410 double shotguns sitting by my chair. One a Stevens 311 and the other a lefever nitro. So I broke open the Stevens. It was as you said needing to be pushed a little more open to get the shells in. The lefever broke open and remained open far enough to load without any pressure to open it further.

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post #25 of 28 (permalink) Old 05-29-2017, 09:14 AM
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16ga. ammo has always been available around here... I haven't noticed there being more of it available lately though...

A 16ga. works just fine for me,



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post #26 of 28 (permalink) Old 05-29-2017, 12:16 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks for the info guys. I would really like to get a 16 gauge sxs, but I would want one with absolutely zero problems. I am sick and tired of buying "projects" when I thought I was getting something problem free.

There is a great article online, called "How to Buy a SXS Shotgun Right." The guy gives a list of 21 separate things he inspects on used sxs, and how to physically do all of this at a gunshow. Given that most of the mid to lower grade classic doubles were used hard by hunters and are now approaching 70 years old, I get the impression that not 1 in a hundred guns I would examine at a show would pass the 21 point inspection.

This kind of pushes me into the 1960s to 1970s Matadors and Ugartecheas. The Ugartecheas imported by American Firearms Co. in California are often listed online in 12 gauge, in very very good shape, in the $600 range, and every thing I read about them says they are excellent. They were made in 16 gauge, but the only 16 I ever saw was something like a grade 3 for nearly $1,800.

The Matadors seem to be highly regarded as well, but their stocks look someone cheaper.

Of course, I would love to have a high grade Fox Model B made in 1949 or 50 instead, but finding one that isn't broken in one of the 21 ways seems doubtful.

I see a new in box 16 gauge Ringneck for sale for around $1,200 but given the hit or miss quality of some of these, I just can't see spending that kind of money. Many are nice guns, but some get reported as shooting a foot right or left of high, or having firing pin problems. If you are not the original buyer, CZ won't fix them for free, and sometimes just won't fix them at all.

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post #27 of 28 (permalink) Old 05-29-2017, 04:07 PM
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From my reading I think a lot of the problemdoubles are the single trigger ones. Stick with double triggers and just make shire the gunlocks up tight and the barrels are joined solid and your good to go.

21 points indeed.....

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post #28 of 28 (permalink) Old 05-29-2017, 07:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mannyrock View Post
The Ugartecheas imported by American Firearms Co. in California are often listed online in 12 gauge, in very very good shape, in the $600 range, and every thing I read about them says they are excellent.
Last I heard, lower grade Ugartecheas are no longer brought in, AND the prices on them instantly climbed!

Good doubles, but you may now have to LOOK for any kind of a deal on one.

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