michigans stupid laws. (long) - Graybeard Outdoors
 
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post #1 of 5 (permalink) Old 06-07-2019, 07:33 AM Thread Starter
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Default michigans stupid laws. (long)

heres the bs I went threw yesterday. I bought a bare lower to build a 300 bo pistol on three days ago. New dealer in town (old gunshop closed) he owns a car repair place and does it on the side there. Now everytime I did it before I would get the lower the dealer would fill out the batf forum and put other in the type of gun spot. then he would do a pistol registration. Funky thing in mi is that a pistol can be no longer then 26 inch or its considered a short barreled rifle. Now there is no clear description of how that's measured. Been kind of the consensus that it is the measurement from the end of the buffer tube to the end of the barrel sans flash suppressor but nobody really knows. So with the other 3 pistols I built the other dealer would just put down 25in on the fourm. That way if I built it to long it wasn't his fault.


Well this new dealer is afraid to put something on a fourm that he didn't actually measure. So he tells me I have to buy the lower build the gun and then have it registered. I told him that it just doesn't work that way because if I don't have a registered pistol lower and do have an ar15 rifle already and buy a short barreled upper im violating federal laws and that constitutes a short barreled rifle with no stamp. Now like I said I do have pistol lowers so that wasn't a concern. So I built the lower and took the gun back to him to register it. I took it broke down and told him that he had to measure it broke down because if I assembled it it broke that same federal law.


So then he made some phone calls (to I don't know who) and said the proper way is to bring it unassembled to the sheriffs dept and register it myself. So I did that. the under sheriffs whos is a friend of mine and one of the female deputys were there. I went though this whole speal and he agreed with me. Problem now is on the Michigan registration card the seller has to sign it. The sheriffs dept isn't the seller so they cant do it. It has to be done by the dealer.


I go back again and the dealer says he sold me the lower and if I build the gun im selling it to myself. I then asked him how I can sell a gun if im not an ffl holder. I about ready to throw my hands in the air. A call to the state police got us nothing. So the undersheriff called the dealer (he knew him too) and told him to do it like I said and just write in 25 inch and if shtf he would say he told him too. 3 ****** hours to register a gun! Comical thing is Michigan doesn't even call it a registration. They call it a safety inspection.


Got a call from the under sheriff later in the day. He said he had to thank me because I may have saved one of his troopers job and but. Seems this guy who like most don't have a clue about these laws put together a 7.5 inch 556. All he did was buy the lower and have it marked other on the batf form and never did a thing more. According to Michigan law he had a short barreled rifle the minute the upper and lower were together in his house. come to find out this trooper had told tow of his buddys that that was the way to do it too. Sad thing is we still don't really know the proper way.


My guess is this stupid state intentionaly set it up without black and white laws so they can treat each person the way they want to if something goes to court. All the stupid measurement laws are pretty much ok in this area because while I was at the sheriffs dept and he was on the phone to the state police captain (whos said hed been through this before and never got a straight answer from his bosses) of our area both said that they could care less how it is measured. If you have a pistol registration with you that's good enough for them.

MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN! STEEL FOR TANKS NOT FENCES!!!
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post #2 of 5 (permalink) Old 06-09-2019, 08:48 AM
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You can bet if you had just went ahead and assembled it and then been caught with it unregistered someone would have explained exactly how you SHOULD have done it - after they charged you for having an unregistered gun!
Many laws, and gun laws especially, are so vague they are open to interpretation by most anyone who reads them. I believe that's no accident.

I can't blame your dealer - how can he know the proper procedure when even those charged with enforcing the law don't all agree or understand it?

One of my pet peeves is a lot of these "laws" aren't even laws. They're just regulations issued by some agency (BATF, EPA, etc) and are treated the same as legitimate laws and have a criminal penalty for violating them. My opinion is they are unconstitutional. Anything having a criminal penalty should be passed by the appropriate duly elected legislature, NOT made "law" simply by some bureaucrat writing a regulation.
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post #3 of 5 (permalink) Old 06-09-2019, 01:04 PM
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Lloyd,

Your story could have been mine earlier this week too. Luckily the dealer had something similar to my build on-hand to be confident in the numbers that needed to be put down.

The uncertainty is rediculous, and Spruce is spot on. I wouldn't ever want to risk having something that could be considered the wrong parts in the wrong place without the pistol paperwork from the get-go.

Terry
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post #4 of 5 (permalink) Old 06-10-2019, 05:59 AM Thread Starter
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the irony with this one is the way the dealer wanted to do it IS the way the batf considers legal. But according to Michigan it could be considered a felony. Batf says As long as the lower is marked other you can do a rifle or handgun with it once you take it home. Only restriction they have is you cant build a short barreled rifle or full auto without a stamp. Its Michigan law that gets this all twisted up. It all comes down to what they call a HANDGUN IMPECTION IS STILL REGISTRATION. What needs to be done is state gun laws thrown out. Gun ownership its a 2nd amendment right that is in the constitution and that makes it a federal matter not state. Wonder how much money all the states that charge for a consealed carry permit make off something that's already your right. Kind of like taxing you if you want to go to church if you ask me.
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Originally Posted by spruce View Post
You can bet if you had just went ahead and assembled it and then been caught with it unregistered someone would have explained exactly how you SHOULD have done it - after they charged you for having an unregistered gun!
Many laws, and gun laws especially, are so vague they are open to interpretation by most anyone who reads them. I believe that's no accident.

I can't blame your dealer - how can he know the proper procedure when even those charged with enforcing the law don't all agree or understand it?

One of my pet peeves is a lot of these "laws" aren't even laws. They're just regulations issued by some agency (BATF, EPA, etc) and are treated the same as legitimate laws and have a criminal penalty for violating them. My opinion is they are unconstitutional. Anything having a criminal penalty should be passed by the appropriate duly elected legislature, NOT made "law" simply by some bureaucrat writing a regulation.

MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN! STEEL FOR TANKS NOT FENCES!!!
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post #5 of 5 (permalink) Old 06-13-2019, 05:40 AM Thread Starter
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well my dealer did some investigating. He got ahold of the state police captain and got a number in lansing to someone who is suppose to know. What they come up with is once the lower is marked other the batf doesn't care what you do with it and to register it in Michigan all you do is go on line and download the fourm and put yourself as both buyer and seller and register it as a handgun. Either that or get the form from the sherrifs dept and do the same.

MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN! STEEL FOR TANKS NOT FENCES!!!
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