Tested a load today - Graybeard Outdoors
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post #1 of 11 (permalink) Old 02-07-2019, 04:40 PM Thread Starter
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Default Tested a load today

Hey Graybeardites,

I've been registered and introduced myself a long time ago, but have mostly just read.
The level of knowledge and experience on here is impressive.

I used some components available to me to try to work up a load for a trail / camp gun.
Let me start by saying I have access to other options, just trying to use what I have.

What I have is Trail Boss, 148 grain hard cast solid wadcutters, more like 156 in my scale.
Loaded in .357 casings to base of bullet which is around 5 grains.
Shot from 4" revolver at about 15 feet.
Again, I recognize there are other options.

I shot these into a yellow pine 4x4 and got about 3-3 1/2 inches of penetration. the bullets hit where I aimed.

The other two penetrated a 1/8" thick aircraft aluminum 2x4 extrusion, and dented the other side.

Would you experienced loaders consider this respectable penetration for a trail /camp load to pot game or discourage coyotes of feral dogs etc ?

There are no signs of pressure issues the recoil is a lot stouter than a standard .38 load.
I know TB is not a high velocity powder, but how would you rate how hard this hits ? Yellow pine is about 2.5 to 3 times harder than soft pine, and a standard pressure.38 will penetrate 6" of that.

I don't have a chronograph but would say it is a tad hotter than .38 +p I have shot. The flat nose is proven to be pretty damaging.

Thanks for your observations.
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post #2 of 11 (permalink) Old 02-08-2019, 05:55 AM
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Tenner...interesting pictures. The seemingly "very hard" cast WC's do not mushroom much while penetrating the hard pine. That's probably going to equate to "pass through" on flesh and bone...not a bad proposition bleeding on both sides, depending on the point of impact. It is difficult to tell, from the pine, what a "wound channel" might be.

My 12 -14 BHN cast 380 WC's, probably going slower, disintegrate when impacting a hardened steel plow disk. I don't know what that means in terms of flesh and bone, but I like to think in means many dozens of wound channels and probably on one side. It has been a while since I shot the 357 mag, with IMR 700X. I don't remember those impacts.

I don't know TB, but any 357 revolver that you are confident in handling and shooting will kill just about anything within its range if targeted appropriately. It is effective hits on target that get results or at least "worry the subject to death".

Those WC's have got to "sting" a might while going through flesh and bone and there is something viscerally pleasing about sending stabilized "ash can" shaped projectiles down range, don't you think? I recommend that you use on-line reloading data and a reloading manual or two (for reference) to prevent too hot a load for that gun.

The Hodgdon site, http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/data/pistol says (to which I add - at 5 grains, you may be running that revolver a little "too hot"):
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post #3 of 11 (permalink) Old 02-08-2019, 10:34 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks land owner.
Admittedly my tests are not very scientific and I will try some other media.
Appreciate your observations about load data. I did a lot of on line research and found two schools of thought re: the old IMR guidelines which were more or less volume based and the newer Hodgdon data which are more strict.

Having some prior experience myself with TB and working up and watching for signs I see no issues.

There are a lot of old timers who feel modern load data are a bit on the conservative side naturally to favor the older or weaker gun. I totally get that. I'm confident mine is not in that category, and truly would be afraid to fool with less forgiving powders.

As to the "ash cans" yeah it's an old school proposition but meplat is a proven effective concept.
Arguably not a good as modern options but what worked then won't not work now.

So far I'm pretty confident this is a good load to discourage four legged predators my dogs and I might encounter on the trail or fishing without having to lug a long gun.
Many thanks for your observations.

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post #4 of 11 (permalink) Old 02-08-2019, 03:05 PM
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Tenner...my pleasure and it is natural to call out for the novice, inexperienced, and the uninitiated that read GBO Forums, that a posted load - potentially outside of manufacturer's published data - should not (for them) be considered a "safe" load, a starting load, or a charge to load or shoot. Your mileage may vary.

We do not know how strong your guns is nor the level of cyclical "thumping" it will tolerate...likewise we know nothing about theirs, so we strictly recommend the two ends of the Mfg. data as the absolutes, starting low and working up, regardless of attorneys or their product liability (dumbing down).

Powders from the 1940's, and perhaps earlier, are still sold to the public. A loading manual near the date of powder manufacture (not date of sale) is probably the best information knowing full well that advances in at least powder chemistry and gun metallurgy have been made since.

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post #5 of 11 (permalink) Old 02-08-2019, 04:10 PM Thread Starter
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Thank you landowner. My apologies if I have violated forum policy, and happy to comply.
I fully understand the implications and the wisdom in this.
I' be seen this in other forums as well, and should have thought better.
You sir are articulate and a gentleman thanks again.
Well moderated forums have my utmost respect.
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post #6 of 11 (permalink) Old 02-09-2019, 06:33 AM
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Tenner...you are a scholar and a gentleman, and there are not many of us left. I was reacting and attempting a "no admonishment" response. No apology is necessary.

A "generic Interweb reloading rule" is being discussed...(more like a recommendation - think "The Code" in Pirates of the Caribbean). I stated YMMV and you, an experienced reloader, may reload and shoot as you deem and observe to be safe while being mindful that posting "a hot load" (and it may not be as I have not reviewed ALL of the available literature) is not recommended for the new-to-reloading shooter as a place to start load development.

I had a Mod and Forum Members erroneously go overboard against me while posting my reloading experience on another forum. I favor the low end of the Mfg's published range for a variety of reasons. They got their panties in a wad over nothing, mostly because I had a post count at that time of less than 20 and they felt their post counts of over 10,000 meant they "knew everything". I didn't argue with them nor did I take their flack lying down for my posting loads that were within the Mfg's published regime. They soon learned the power of prose from me in my ire in that instance, though that site left me with an indelible disgust for its Mod and some Membership, which I have since gotten beyond because it is still a real good site.

I don't ever want to be "like Mike" from that instance. Rudeness is not to be tolerated. We get one opportuinty to create a First Impression, so it should be the best impresison we can leave with one another. Keep posting. We'll figure it all out in time.
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post #7 of 11 (permalink) Old 02-09-2019, 07:09 AM
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Also, too, I would look into why your bullets weigh 5.4% high on your scales.


Dave


PS you guys are 'way too civil and polite. I'd shy away from politics if I were you.
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post #8 of 11 (permalink) Old 02-09-2019, 09:49 AM Thread Starter
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@ Luke, I' ve done it both ways, treating people with dignity and tact is not politics.It's just the right way to treat people. I know the difference and have no trouble disagreeing when there is principle or conscience involved.

When people are willing to talk in a civil manner, things make progress. Don't confuse kindness with weakness.

As to the extra weight, I don't know. Don't different alloys vary a bit ? I bought a ten pounds lead ingot, I don't know it's composition, other than hard.
My scale is calibrated, and recalibrated, at any rate, it's easier to find formulas for 158 grain bullets, I'll take it. 😉

What might be a good all around powder for .38- .357 in the plus P .38 to mid powered .357 loads ? I' m not looking for anything fire breathing .
I promise to stay in manufacturer specs.
'
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post #9 of 11 (permalink) Old 02-11-2019, 04:18 PM
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Tenderondack: I've not used Trail Boss but understand you can just about fill your case with it and never get near upper pressures. In the old days, for bodyguard work we used the 141 or 148 gn wadcutter, hollow butt end first, over anywhere from 4-8 gns of Unique for up to 13-1400'/sec or 2400 powder, 11-15 gns for up to about 1400'/sec.
I would start with middle of the road loads and go one way or the other.
And you're right, a flat nosed flying ashcan that shoots through creates much more damage than many think. Just sayin'..
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post #10 of 11 (permalink) Old 03-27-2019, 07:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tennerondack View Post
What might be a good all around powder for .38- .357 in the plus P .38 to mid powered .357 loads ? I' m not looking for anything fire breathing .
I promise to stay in manufacturer specs.
'
Unique or Herco would be a couple of good choices.
..
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