357 Max powders for longer barrels.... - Graybeard Outdoors
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post #1 of 30 (permalink) Old 12-08-2019, 07:15 PM Thread Starter
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Default 357 Max powders for longer barrels....

I have a 26 inch MGM 357 Max barrel (1-16) with a Bellm chamber on the way. I load W296 in my CVA Scout 357 Max pistol. What powder y'all using in rifle length barrels for top velocity and accuracy? I have some AA1680 and W296. Don't have these but I saw where people had good luck with Lil Gun, IMR/H 4227, and RL7. Gonna try Barnes 180 and 200 TTSX, mainly want to see how the 180s do. I shoot the Barnes 140 XPB in my pistol. I'm sure I will get the urge to see how the 140s do in it....lol.... If I can get 2450 - 2500 fps with the 180's, I should be good to the around 200 yds. Which powder should get me to 2400 - 2500 fps with the 180's?
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post #2 of 30 (permalink) Old 12-08-2019, 11:13 PM
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I have used H110 (same as 296), WC 680 (same as 1680) and IMR 4227 in my max handguns and in my 16" 357AR max. All powders did good for accuracy with the right load. The IMR 4227 seemed more temperature sensitive and was my least favorite.

If the loads that shoot good in the CVA are accurate in the long gun, I would be tempted to just keep things simple and not worry so much about maximum available velocity.

On the other hand, the AA1680 is worth a try with 180s or 200s in your longer barrel. Maximum book loads for this powder are usually compressed, but I had better luck with loads that were right at 100% load density. For me, I shoot nothing but cast and the slower powder seemed to shoot as good or better.
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post #3 of 30 (permalink) Old 12-08-2019, 11:27 PM
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Alliant MP-300 loves long barrels in the 357MAX with 180's. Best speed to accuracy ratio I have had out of any other powder except the sometimes hard to get Vhit N-120 in my 22 incher.

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post #4 of 30 (permalink) Old 12-09-2019, 02:06 PM
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1680 has always proved the best propellant I have tried

I wish there was 300MP data Id like to try some

I have a 24” Savage Maxi. 🙂

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post #5 of 30 (permalink) Old 12-09-2019, 02:40 PM
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I treated 300MP like a slow lot of 296/h110 and worked it out for myself. There truly is a difference in defining the terms handloader v,s reloader. FWIW published Vhit N-120 data and my 300MP data with 180 grainers were so close it was kind of eerie.

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post #6 of 30 (permalink) Old 12-09-2019, 04:40 PM Thread Starter
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Is 2500 fps possible with AA1680 with the 180's? Alliant 300MP? or any powder?
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post #7 of 30 (permalink) Old 12-09-2019, 05:45 PM
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I have never seen fully developed load data (with pressure) for a 357 Max in a rifle.

Depending on brass wall thickness and actual COL, the 350L has functionally the same ballistics as the 357 Max.

From the Hodgdon load center for a 24" 350L, their Lil'Gun was the fastest with data:

Lil'Gun, 180 gr, COL 2.110"
Start at 23.0 for 2,049 with 41,300 PSI
Max was 25.5 for 2,213 with 50,600 PSI

I have heard that Lil'gun gets spiky with hot loads so I would be reluctant to push this powder. On the other hand, I also seem to remember some pushing AA1680 and 300MP hard with acceptable results.

So, if you want maximum safe speed (probably not 2500 fps), you will probably want to seat the bullet as far out as possible, use thick cup rifle primers (such as CCI 450 or Rem 7 1/2) and work your way up very slowly. It is likely that you will need to exceed 51000 psi. Go too far and your primer pockets will start to expand (get looser). If you work up to a maximum load in cool temperatures, you should probably back off and work up to a maximum again when it gets hot. My guess is that your max speed without case damage will be closer to 2300 fps.

Last edited by P Flados; 12-09-2019 at 06:12 PM.
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post #8 of 30 (permalink) Old 12-09-2019, 06:46 PM
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Bullet shape should help you chase higher velocity. A bullet with longer ogive and shorter shank like the 180 gr Speer flat nose has less friction than a longer shanked pistol bullet like the 180 gr Hornady XTPs.

Again, no load data so caveat emptor.

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post #9 of 30 (permalink) Old 12-09-2019, 06:49 PM Thread Starter
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In my CVA Scout 357 Max pistol, I used AA1680 with the 180 XTPs. I packed it FULL!!!! seating to the pistol crimp groove. 28.5 grs + 180 XTP = COMPRESSED!!!! Cases would fall right out, though. You can't get enough powder in to overpressure it. For me, AA1680 and W296 shot good, W296 shot better. AA1680 - 1/2 groups at 50, W296 - almost 1 hole at 50.

W296 + 180 XTP or 140 XPB =
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post #10 of 30 (permalink) Old 12-09-2019, 06:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lbahunter View Post
Is 2500 fps possible with AA1680 with the 180's? Alliant 300MP? or any powder?
Not in my experience. You will loosen primer pockets before you get to 2500 fps. 2300 is doable if you do not care to load the brass over a few times though. Maybe you should get a 358WIN

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