.45-70 vs. .500 S&W - Graybeard Outdoors
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post #1 of 29 (permalink) Old 01-05-2019, 08:50 PM Thread Starter
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Default .45-70 vs. .500 S&W

Was watching vids on Handi Rifles on Youtube and tripped over the vid below about a .500 S&W...

It's definitely kicking a bunch, LOL!

Have to admit... that made me want it all the more, LOL!

But I was thinking... Does the .500 really do anything the .45-70 can't in a similarly strong rifle?

Your thoughts?

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post #2 of 29 (permalink) Old 01-05-2019, 09:21 PM
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Bigger diameter bullets. Using bullets with minimal expansion like cast, a 22% larger impact area matters.....at least a little. Novelty and exclusivity. I hunted moose with a .50-70 for years, vey effective and you’ll not likely meet someone else hunting with it.


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post #3 of 29 (permalink) Old 01-07-2019, 12:53 AM
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If you look at the loads for a modern 45-70 (non-trapdoor), you'll find 405gr +P ammo from Buffalo Bore, Grizzly, and other manufacturers that is about 100 fps faster with similar weight bullets. When you consider the ballistic coefficient of the 45-70 over the 500 S&W, you'll see the 45-70 gives better performance with both distance and penetration. Here's a quick comparison from 22 inch barrel rifles:

300 grain Buffalo Bore 45-70 = 2350 fps
300 grain Hornady 500 S&W = 2248 fps

350 grain Buffalo Bore 45-70 = 2100 fps
350 grain Hornady 500 S&W= 2056 fps

400 grain Buffalo Bore 45-70 = 2000 fps
400 grain Cor-Bon 500 S&W = 1971 fps

I own handi rifles in both 500 S&W and 45-70 (plus 2 trapdoors). I use my 500 S&W for brush hunting out to around 75 yards. I am comfortable using my 45-70 out to 300 yards to hunt, then the bullet drop gets a pain in the rear to start calculating.

DAV VFW SASS

Handi family: 500 S&W, 45-70 Buffalo Classic, 45 Colt Classic Carbine, 38-55 Target Classic, 12 gauge rifled
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post #4 of 29 (permalink) Old 01-07-2019, 08:56 PM
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This tells me you have more experience with the 45/70... 100 fps equates to 75 yds vs 300 yds?
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post #5 of 29 (permalink) Old 01-13-2019, 06:23 PM
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I don’t have any experience with the .500 but with the information available I don’t think there’s anything it will do that the .45-70 won’t with a proper load.
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post #6 of 29 (permalink) Old 01-15-2019, 04:54 AM
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Ill go this route. I like classic and the 4570 wins I that category hands down. But in killing id take the 500. Bigger bullet, bigger metplat. As to sectional density that's an easy one to cure. Use a heavier 500 bullet. 400 grain 4570 bullets are in the medium to large for caliber category. 400 grain 500 bullets are light for the caliber. Step up to a 450-500 grain lfn that has as good of sectional density as a 400 grain 4570 bullet and because of its weight its going to penetrate better. Trajectory to me means nothing. If im going to hunt where shots are past even 200 yards the 4570 is staying home. Sure it can do it. heck ive hit steal at near a 1000 with a 4570 but that doesn't make it a perfect hunting round for those distances. In all reality its like comparing the 475 Linebaugh to the 500 Linebaugh. Either will kill about anything. Especially if you use heavy for caliber bullets and make velocity a secondary concern. Id rather have either of them with a heavy for caliber cast lfn or similar design at 1500 fps then either with a 300 grain jacked hp at any velocity. Math numbers like ft lbs of energy don't kill. Trajectory is another non issue to me. Neither are flat shooting. I don't see how knowing I have to hold over 7 inches at 300 yards means a spit difference then knowing I have to hold over 10 inches. What kills is a big bullet that leaves a long wound channel and breaks down an animal. You can dig up arguments that favor either. Im not a bit 500 smith fan. Why? Because I think the guns smith made to chamber them are huge and ugly. In a lever gun it would make a very formidable cartridge though. Especially for someone that doesn't handload. To equal it in a 4570 you about have to be a handloader or pay for expensive buffalo bore ammo. Again a non issue to me but its a real one. Want my real opinion? If you want real horse power in a lever gun skip both and get yourself a 50 Alaskan. It will eat the other two for lunch.

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post #7 of 29 (permalink) Old 01-15-2019, 04:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lloyd smale View Post
Ill go this route. I like classic and the 4570 wins I that category hands down. But in killing id take the 500. Bigger bullet, bigger metplat. As to sectional density that's an easy one to cure. Use a heavier 500 bullet. 400 grain 4570 bullets are in the medium to large for caliber category. 400 grain 500 bullets are light for the caliber. Step up to a 450-500 grain lfn that has as good of sectional density as a 400 grain 4570 bullet and because of its weight its going to penetrate better. Trajectory to me means nothing. If im going to hunt where shots are past even 200 yards the 4570 is staying home. Sure it can do it. heck ive hit steal at near a 1000 with a 4570 but that doesn't make it a perfect hunting round for those distances. In all reality its like comparing the 475 Linebaugh to the 500 Linebaugh. Either will kill about anything. Especially if you use heavy for caliber bullets and make velocity a secondary concern. Id rather have either of them with a heavy for caliber cast lfn or similar design at 1500 fps then either with a 300 grain jacked hp at any velocity. Math numbers like ft lbs of energy don't kill. Trajectory is another non issue to me. Neither are flat shooting. I don't see how knowing I have to hold over 7 inches at 300 yards means a spit difference then knowing I have to hold over 10 inches. What kills is a big bullet that leaves a long wound channel and breaks down an animal. You can dig up arguments that favor either. Im not a bit 500 smith fan. Why? Because I think the guns smith made to chamber them are huge and ugly. In a lever gun it would make a very formidable cartridge though. Especially for someone that doesn't handload. To equal it in a 4570 you about have to be a handloader or pay for expensive buffalo bore ammo. Again a non issue to me but its a real one. Want my real opinion? If you want real horse power in a lever gun skip both and get yourself a 50 Alaskan. It will eat the other two for lunch.
Big Horn Armory makes a very nice lever action .500 S&W, One day I wouldn’t mind to have one of their rifles in a different caliber but being I already shoot .45-70 I probably won’t. Very nice looking rifles though
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post #8 of 29 (permalink) Old 01-16-2019, 06:25 PM
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I had a Handi Rifle in 500 S&W. It didn't show me anything to compare with my .45-70s. Recoil was more, components cost more, recoil was more, and trajectory sucked. I load 405 .45-70s to 1950 fps. It does all I can see and need out to 400 yards or more. I have never had anything walk. I've missed a fox at 400 yards. but that's pilot error. But I killed fox and coyote at the same 400. I never had a deer go more than two jumps, and I've taken them at 300 plus. I might like a .500 if T Rex was smashing my front door! It's a pistol round not a rifle cartridge, don't expect it to perform like one.

Over the .500, I much prefer what I call my .45-70 short...my .445 Super Magnum. It beats the .500 in cost and recoil. A nice PISTOL round that is happy in a rifle.

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post #9 of 29 (permalink) Old 01-17-2019, 05:23 AM
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ya pete up here and in most states both are more then what is really needed. A good 44 mag lever gun shooting 300 grain casts will kill anything that walks. Actually my favorite lever gun isn't my 4570 or my 50ak. Its a little marlin 94 17 inch gun in 475 lineabaugh that Rob Applegate built for me. Light, handy, easy to carry and even loaded down with a 350 grain lfn at 1200 fps will kill anything in the continental US. Another favorite of mine that sometimes over looked is the 444. Flatter shooting then either the 4570 or 500 smith and it packs some serious punch.
Quote:
Originally Posted by petemi View Post
I had a Handi Rifle in 500 S&W. It didn't show me anything to compare with my .45-70s. Recoil was more, components cost more, recoil was more, and trajectory sucked. I load 405 .45-70s to 1950 fps. It does all I can see and need out to 400 yards or more. I have never had anything walk. I've missed a fox at 400 yards. but that's pilot error. But I killed fox and coyote at the same 400. I never had a deer go more than two jumps, and I've taken them at 300 plus. I might like a .500 if T Rex was smashing my front door! It's a pistol round not a rifle cartridge, don't expect it to perform like one.

Over the .500, I much prefer what I call my .45-70 short...my .445 Super Magnum. It beats the .500 in cost and recoil. A nice PISTOL round that is happy in a rifle.

Pete

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post #10 of 29 (permalink) Old 01-22-2019, 12:00 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lloyd smale View Post
ya pete up here and in most states both are more then what is really needed. A good 44 mag lever gun shooting 300 grain casts will kill anything that walks. Actually my favorite lever gun isn't my 4570 or my 50ak. Its a little marlin 94 17 inch gun in 475 lineabaugh that Rob Applegate built for me. Light, handy, easy to carry and even loaded down with a 350 grain lfn at 1200 fps will kill anything in the continental US. Another favorite of mine that sometimes over looked is the 444. Flatter shooting then either the 4570 or 500 smith and it packs some serious punch.
A stainless Marlin 1894 is definitely on my bucket list. Or potentially the Rossie M92. In . 44 mag.

Seems to me, a Lee Loader Classic, a Lyman 429421 and some 2400 and one has all one needs for anything out to about 100 yards in the lower 48. (Grizzley possibly excepted.)

That said... despite having a Marlin 1895 GS, Handi and BC in .45-70... I still want the long barreled Cowboy model in .45-70... LOL! Would like to have a Rolling Block in same...

I think .45-70 are addictive...
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