Power Pistol vs Unique REDUCED Rifle - Graybeard Outdoors
 
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post #1 of 9 (permalink) Old 09-09-2019, 01:29 PM Thread Starter
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Default Power Pistol vs Unique REDUCED Rifle

Have used Lyman loads re: Unique in 458win mag, this worked well even tho recoil (from generally PUBLISHED heavier loads) has never been a significant issue for me ... the way have always gone about things. Don't shoot FULL HOUSE or factory loads though, in 458wm nor 460wby, have no need for ultra high PSI.

As have gotten older with some mild tendonitits in upper arm that managing well, have also used H4198 & H4895 PUBLISHED in 460wby, with 405g/350g .... for great LEVERGUN VELOCITY loads in a 22inch scoped Winchester Mauser. Very ACCURATE, 1750-1950 fps, tho 50-60%ish case fill(PUBLISHED) with no known issues, hangfires, squib etc.

Then got to thinking(for a bit lower velocity in 1500fps or less), would not mind working up 460 wby 405g cast loads using Unique INSTEAD of similiar velocity PUBLISHED loads using Trail Boss (but referencing 416 rigby case capacity). BTW, the rifle twist in this gun stabilizes heavy bullets very well, at the lower velocities so far. Also, use Quickload for estimating PUBLISHED data, not to build loads from direct.

Finally, also thinking that POWER PISTOL might? be better than UNIQUE for reduced loads, it seems to be generally more flexible in its wider range of use.

The thing is, both these powders(Unique&PowPist) are OFF the reservation(to my knowledge in 460wby) PLUS it is such a big case w/ sharper OVERBORE shoulder dims, that allow for more gas pressure build-up etc.

Would not just build loads from reading just anything off the internet either but would like to hear useful thoughts and/or any experience! or Publications/Direction am not aware of? Thanks, Squint.
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post #2 of 9 (permalink) Old 09-09-2019, 01:32 PM
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I can tell you that 20-24 grains of 2400 works for reduced load in the 458 with a 405 but that's the extent of my downloading it. Load worked and for the little I shot them never saw a need to go any further.

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post #3 of 9 (permalink) Old 09-09-2019, 05:35 PM
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When I owned my .458 mag, I had good luck with reduced loads - 1200 / 1500 fps using SR4759 powder and a 400 grain bullet. 26 grains - 1262 fps, 28 grains - 1340 fps, and 30 grains - 1445 fps. As per Speer #10 manual.


H4895 has also worked well for slightly stiffer reduced loads in a variety of large bore cartridges.


Never fooled with the faster burning handgun powders in large capacity rifle cartridges though, so no help there.


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post #4 of 9 (permalink) Old 09-09-2019, 09:38 PM Thread Starter
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Interesting.

To add, it doesnt have to be HG fast burning powders either, in the 460Wby reduced loading.

Just started there, with query. A safe 'less than 1500fps' may be best goal. 1500fps 'might' be as low as want to go, especially since not interested in bullet tumbling.

Which think will happen IF used Trail Boss's 70-98% CASE FILL method, tho as far as recoil, dont mind the 1100-1300 fps or less, that is indicated.

IMR4227 possible. Also, any other powders very similiar to the discontinued SR4759 could be a potential.

Noted on Win Mag experience-tks, and will remember that too, useful.

Last edited by squint; 09-09-2019 at 09:45 PM.
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post #5 of 9 (permalink) Old 09-11-2019, 01:15 AM Thread Starter
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Update:

Still have a strong interest in Power Pistol or Unique or 2400 at some point(but would like to see more work first in that area since fast burn, low volume case fill),

BUT after revisiting h4895 in 460wby, forecast gets me in 1400fps range plus higher as needed, but using 405g cast instead of published 350g Hornady. 405g Cast not needing as much Shot Start psi.

If can substitute heavier cast for copper bullet safely with h4895, its less stiff than the 4198 load in Lyman have done real well with. So really need to test h4895 if recommended. Its only 25lbs recoil as well.

Am also really interested in IMR4227 in 460wby-405g cast. Its not quite as fast & low volume powder.
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post #6 of 9 (permalink) Old 09-25-2019, 10:45 AM Thread Starter
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As far as PowPist goes (if not Unique and 2400), tests will be done in 4570 & 458 at some point.

CURRENT 460wby project:
Believe can lower velocity with 4895 (IMR or Hodgdon suggested? as IMR costs less!).

Instead of h4198, but tested more rounds over past w/e and printed STUNNING half inch groups again, think barrel likes 400g range bullets too, so seems am on to something with this load. Yet interested in a bit lighter recoil but dont know velocity or range bullets might start keyholing?

Another question with these powders at about 60%, should I use a dacron fill to hold powder over flashhole to minimize occasional flyers from my tight groups?
Have never used fill material in bottleneck case.... how to pack etc...

Thanks for thoughts

Last edited by squint; 09-25-2019 at 10:47 AM.
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post #7 of 9 (permalink) Old 10-10-2019, 08:31 AM
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I have shot lots of Unique in 45-70 and 444 Marlin but don't own a 458. I have played with a lot of the others including Blue Dot, 2400 and Tight Group. I like the Unique best but 2400 is right there with it. It just so happened that back when the BO all things shooting shortage was at its peak I stumbled onto 8 lbs of Unique....8 lbs of Unique will last me a while.....probably till i'm dead!
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post #8 of 9 (permalink) Old 10-10-2019, 08:49 AM
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never tried power pistol in the 458 but have worked with it in cases as big as 4570s and its worked as well as unique and is cleaner to boot. I have shot unique in the 458. 12 grains of unique and a 405 cast bullet work just fine. I have no doubt the same load would be fine in the 460 and would be fine substituting power pistol. I did a bunch of testing with different powders as fast as bullseye in the 458 one year and part of that test was to see if dacron made a difference and it if it did it wasn't noticeable. Found a fun load back then. A 4570 with a lee 457 round ball cast out of pure with 3 grains of bullseye from a lee dipper. you don't even have to size the brass. Just prime it and add powder and push a bullet in the neck. Worked great for shooting in the garage with a small sand box back stop. I put a swinging steal spinner in front of it. When you were done you could go pick up the flattened round balls laying of the floor. Something to do in the winter!

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post #9 of 9 (permalink) Old 10-13-2019, 10:55 PM Thread Starter
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Winter projects after hunting season are fun for sure! Thanks for everyone's input.
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