Graybeard Outdoors banner

Cannon restoration project

10K views 93 replies 12 participants last post by  double d 
#1 ·
I have been casually looking for a Civil war, Napoleonic war, Indian war cannon for the last 5 years. A project to restore and for yard art at my house. Living in NM there was not much around and really didn't want something fake looking. Well I finally pulled the trigger on a cannon on eBay with basically very little knowledge about it, and the seller said they knew nothing about it either being it was from a estate sale. Irregardless of what I find out about it, I am happy with the look and cant wait to get started on restoring it.
The Uship guy is delivering it hopefully at the end of this week and then I can get some better pictures. 2.5" barrel. I did research the axle and it appears to be made by a company post civil war.
Anyhow, here is a picture. If anyone has any thoughts on it, or experience with it, I would love to hear what you got to say. Thanks. Paul
 

Attachments

See less See more
1
#7 ·
So far no. Just got it this morning and have not spent much time with it except to pb blaster on the nuts. Lots of rust. There are some square nuts and some hex. The axle I did get some info from the print on it and I am pretty sure post civil war. Because of the hex nuts I am thinking a replica, but, I know there were machined threads in 1800s.
The bore is in bad shape with rust, and I doubt there is rifling and if there ever was it is gone now. Some type of epoxy or something over the touch hole.
Having a hard time posting pics on this site, but, will take another run at it.
 
#4 ·
Cannon project starts today

Been casually looking for a cannon the last 5-6 years. Live in NM so not much locally and never pulled the trigger on one till last week. Looks like decent condition, but, still in need of a restoration. Wanted something from between Napoleonic wars to N. American Indian wars. I have no details on this cannon, but , pretty sure a replica because it has hex nuts on it.
Anyone have any experience or recognize the type of cannon I would sure be interested in hearing what you got to say.
 
#6 ·
I've never seen a ring riveted onto the lunette like that, but there are people here who know far more then I do or probably ever will.
 
#9 ·
Cannot help. But it is kinda a Cool Gun. I like it just as it is. Instead of a complete restore to look new. I think I would just find a way to coat it/preserve it from further deterioration. And leave most of the Patina as is. Maybe some light cleaning, and a generous coating of Linseed oil on the whole thing and as needed afterwards. I think extensive restoration would drop the value considerably if you ever decided to part ways with it.


But I realize not everyone thinks like me, and it is not mine,LOL Either way have fun with it, that is the important part. I really like it.


Sorry forgot.


Welcome to the Forum also. You will get a lot of good help here I am sure.
 
#11 ·
In my opinion it is mid-20th C, almost certainly a one-off. I haven’t seen anything much like it. For whatever that’s worth. But it is pretty clear that the builder combined “found” items to make the carriage. I hope you can find someone knowledgeable to check out the tube to see whether it can be fired or not.
 
#12 ·
How would an expert determine the barrel is safe? Do they just scope it and visually inspect or is it mag-na-fluxed or x-rayed ? Just wondering.
 
#13 ·
If I were home I would go dig out my copy of Switlik's The More Complete Cannoneer. I think he has a chapter on Barrel inspection. But I not home right now so I can't go look.

Seems to me that chapter included instructions on how to make an inspection mirror.

Oh I wish Switlik would reprint that book.

Problem with a mirror of a borescope anybody can run one down a bore, but not very many people know what they are looking at.

I agree with Cannonmn about this cannon. If that is a 2.5" bore, this is a monster gun.
 
#14 ·
Help identify cannon I just bought

I have a post already about cannon, but, really trying to figure out its origin, so thought new thread may get some ideas.

I am already leaning towards this being a replica for several reasons. Lots or ornate extras I would not expect on a military cannon, some hex bolts and some square, and small diameter barrel with no rifling.

I have been looking at cannons on google every night and I have yet to see one with these wheels on the train like this one. I would not think they would be very practical in the field (another reason I think its a replica)

Has anyone seen a cannon with similar wheels on the train like this. Thanks
https://www.go2gbo.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=240390&stc=1&d=1579999288
 

Attachments

#15 · (Edited)
What happened? I did a detailed post on his other thread and poof it is gone, oh well, I’ll summarize it. Weigh tube, get tube displacement in water, divide, have the S.G., if less than that of cast iron, tube not shootable. The muzzle face looks to be separate plate, there’s a joint behind it where a possible pipe joins it. The non-visible volume of the tube may be hollow, and the S.G. Number will show that. Don’t try and shoot it until you are sure I’m wrong about the tube Being a hollow decorator yard cannon.
 
#17 · (Edited)
You are already getting answers and second post isn't going get different answers. I merged your two Post together so all the information is on one spot and easier to find for researchers.

It is not an original Civil War, Napoleonic War or Indian war gun in anyway, shape or form.

This is a very interesting gun that someone put a lot of work into. The size and detail indicate something thing more th a garage hobbyist effort. It appears the barrel was acquired and then the carriage was built for the barrel.

Look under those caps on the end of the trunnions for markings.

The bore diameter to muzzle diameter says modern made, that jumps out at you. The Archibald hub wheels where used late 19th century early 20th century for supply wagons and artillery. The only example I could find had rubber tire not steel

http://www.hansenwheel.com/store/archibald-bolt-hub-wheels-4829.html
 
#18 ·
Thanks for combining posts, was not seeing replies, and now this evening seeing all of them. I guess no email notification.
I agree not a military cannon. Maybe some kind of ceremonial or replica of some kind.

The wheels on the train. Do they mean anything to you. I cant find anything similar at all on the internet. Thanks
 
#19 ·
https://www.go2gbo.com/forums/attac...nt.php?attachmentid=240504&stc=1&d=1580127627
https://www.go2gbo.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=240506&stc=1&d=1580127656


Picture of homed bore cleaner I made after racking my brain with amazon trying to figure out how to clean out the bore that was filled with rust and chipmunk stash

This is where I need some help. this looks to me like a threaded insert for the touch hole. I am only about 60% sure it is a threaded insert. Would this mean barrel is NOT cast iron????

The insert was covered with and epoxy I believe to protect it. This is all my supposition. I would really love to hear from someone with experience with how these barrels are put together.

There was a small shard of metal when I scraped away the epoxy. It had to be bent with my fingers 3-4 times before it would break off. This is not how I understand cast iron works. I could be wrong about this. love to hear anyones prior knowledge or experience. I am not new to restoring items, but, I am new to cannons.
thanks in advance
 

Attachments

#20 ·
Not sure how much more time and effort you want to spend working on these details, up to you of course. I’m almost positive the tube is hollow between the pipe-bore and the outer wall of the tube.

What you want to do is dismount the tube and weigh it. Then measure the outside dimensions of the tube, approximately. Then get a friend who is good at math to calculate the tube outside volume in cubic feet. Then subtract the bore volume. Then divide weight by volume to get density in say, pounds per cubic foot. If piece is real cast iron the number should be about 490 lbs/ft3. If it is way less it is hollow.
 
#21 ·
It finally hit me what you were trying to say in your first post. I never even considered that the tube was hollow. I will look at it completely differently now.
So, the barrel if solid metal should weigh at least a few hundred pounds?
So if the tube is as you think hollow, then it was not made to be fired?
Why the touch hole then? Just for show I guess. I guess one other way to check is to drill into barrel with small diameter drill, but, off course that would compromise the barrel.
 
#27 ·
Jack, first I like your avatar. Gonna have to steal it. I agree once I started looking specifically at 1857 Napoleons, but, still those pesky wheels on the back. Those may have just been some extra frill added by whoever put this cannon together.
 
#32 · (Edited)
I think an earlier post suggested it may not be a vent liner but a passageway from an outer tube to an inner tube with a possible void between them. I'm with the other guys, weigh the barrel and calculate it's mass. I'm glad you're here asking questions we all want you to have a safe cannon to shoot. If it can't be deemed safe I'll be the first to suggest filling the bore with cement and making it a lawn ornament.
 
#34 ·
In one picture (post #8) the cascabel seems to have a crack under it like it's attached to the barrel not part of it. Could be a scratch in the finish also.
 
#41 ·
Maybe I should be flattered. Nobody has ever written a poem about me. I dont think.... No, I am pretty much positive nobody ever has.

I get home there are about 2 hours of daylight left. I am in the middle of pruning 70 fruit trees and need to finish that before they start budding out so have to work on that at least a little every night. Yesterday it was snowing, today had my youngest son lined up to help me, but, got stuck on phone. I will weigh it, and post it. We really ought to have a pool and have everyone guess. I am gonna say 220 lbs.
Patience
 
#38 ·
The vent is the hole from the outside off the cannon to inside of the cannon where the fuse or primer is placed to ignite the charge. It is what you are calling touch hole.

Vent liners were installed to repair erosion of the vent from firing.

In core cast cannons Those cannons cast around a steel liner a vent liner is needed to make continuous hole from outside to inside and cover the joint between cast steel steel liner. These two different materials react with Blackpowder fouling to set up chemical reaction and corrode.

I might suggest you take a magnet to your barrel. I wonder if the bore and muzzle are steel surrounded by cement barrel that is coated in epoxy or a gelcoat
 
#40 ·
Double d. You nailed it. the outside liner is definetly steel. It does have cement surrounding the barrel and a steel cast around it. I would not have believed it or even thought that it was a process, but, that is exactly what this cannon is.
 
#39 ·
I do not think the outside could be anything but metal. Sure looks like a lot of rust on the exterior throughout to me.



That is what I would do as suggested. Weigh that sucker. Put it you pickup, drive across a scale. Deduct the weight of the truck, even two bathroom scales would work I think. Not hard to weigh it, but figuring it out after the weight is known, is way beyond my math skills,LOL
 
#42 ·
Okay, just wanted to share an experience I had today.
As you know I have been trying to figure out the origin of this cannon.
I am guessing most of you have watched Pawn Stars and have seen Sean the firearms expert on the show.
He has a website called Tortugatrading. I had tried to submit a request on his website for a evaluation of the cannon but, the website would not allow it.
Long story short I called the number on the screen, and Sean answered the phone.
I cannot stress how polite, nice and helpful he was. I was blown away. I offered several times to pay for his evaluation, but, he refused. I sent him a bunch of pictures and then he called me back and discussed the cannon with me for about 30 minutes.
Anyhow, he is fairly certain that it was a cannon made in last quarter of 19th century likely as a ceremonial type cannon for like VA halls.
Just wanted to share that he was even nicer on the phone than he comes across on the show.
 
#43 ·
Thx for the info. That’d be good news if it turned out to be from a veteran’s organization because all the “G.A.R.” Cannons I’ve seen were made to shoot blank loads in their parades and in ceremonies. So his opinion is reasonable but of course I beg to differ. The limited deterioration of wood and metal put my dating guess at mid-20th C. And if that is epoxy around the vent, that can establish an “earliest” date. We do appreciate your efforts to get weight etc.
 
#45 · (Edited)
You hAve a pretty knowledgeable expert already answering your questions in Cannonmn. Some of those TV experts aren't as expert as they would have us believe although Sean is pretty good. I think I would lean to Cannonmn. But then I know who Cannonmn is. He was on Mythbusters, they came to him. They shot a cannon in his front yard. John is your neighbor still mad about that?
 
#46 ·
Neighbor moved away not too long after that. I think he finally flipped out when I installed the 8” Columbiad in the front yard. He just couldn’t handle that. As soon as he saw it he started screaming that he was going to call the FBI, ATF, CIA, County zoning enforcement, blah blah. He did but only the County came out, and I had the needed zoning variance Paperwork already.
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top