Which Ackley Improved Improves the Most?? - Graybeard Outdoors
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post #1 of 32 (permalink) Old 05-09-2008, 02:00 PM Thread Starter
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Default Which Ackley Improved Improves the Most??

I haven't been able to locate a reasonably priced P.O. Ackley book(s). I know some of the Impoved cartridges don't give much extra bang for the buck. Would you rate the best Improved cartridges that give the best improvement over their standard counterpart? Are the best the 22-250, 30-30, 257 roberts, 223? If you can rank them accordingly, as many as you want to, I would appreciate it or if you have a comment or commentary on the cartridges or their effectiveness, etc. I would like that as well.

Thanks,

Bob
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post #2 of 32 (permalink) Old 05-09-2008, 02:10 PM
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Default Re: Which Ackley Improved Improves the Most??

I'm not sure there is a definitive answer to the question. The .30-30 surely is one of the top but I seem to recall the .250 Savage is generally rated as most improved. The .22 Hornet also can gain much but generally the K-Hornet not the AI is the way to go with it.

To my mind tho the most desireable to me are the .257 Roberts AI and the .280 Remington AI with the .30-30 AI trailing them for use in a TC Contender if made as a new barrel not a rechamber.



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post #3 of 32 (permalink) Old 05-09-2008, 02:39 PM
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Default Re: Which Ackley Improved Improves the Most??

Any of my Ackley Improved cartridges, I benefit from less cases stretching than from more speed also my 7mm Mauser Ackley Improved and 30-06 Springfield Ackley Improved cartridges burn slow burning powder more efficiently that standard cases.

Reduced case stretching is tops in my book, I don't care about more speed, just accuracy.

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post #4 of 32 (permalink) Old 05-09-2008, 07:23 PM
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Default Re: Which Ackley Improved Improves the Most??

P.O. stated of the .250/3000 Improved that "it is one of the best of the so called Improved cartridges. It shows a greater percentage of increase in velocity than almost any other."



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post #5 of 32 (permalink) Old 05-09-2008, 09:22 PM
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Default Re: Which Ackley Improved Improves the Most??

If your asking which case has the largest increase in velocity it would be the one the with the largest increase in volume. The increase in velocity is 1/2 of the % increase in case volume, or so the rule goes.
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post #6 of 32 (permalink) Old 05-10-2008, 02:10 AM
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Default Re: Which Ackley Improved Improves the Most??

The 30-40 Krag AI also has a very nice improvement over the standard round.
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post #7 of 32 (permalink) Old 05-13-2008, 12:39 PM
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Default Re: Which Ackley Improved Improves the Most??

Mr. Ackley was a trained engineer. Syracuse Univ??? Read his books and he makes the point that he "improved" cartridges to reduce the back thrust on the action and to keep the burning powder in the case extending barrel life and sharpened the shoulder to slow case lengthening. The extra velocity was "gravey on the taters."

He writes of firing a 94 Winchester, .30/30 Improved, without the bolt locking lug in the gun. [NOT from the shoulder!] The improved case gripped the chamber sufficiently that the bolt stayed in the gun.

Obviously taking a funnel shaped case like the .22/250 and straightening out the sides to reduce back thrust also greatly increases powder capacity. More powder, more velocity and more cost. More funnel eliminated, more performance. He wrote the .30/40 Krag Imp, NOT IN Krag rifles (one locking lug and OLD) would equal the .300 H&H factory ammo. (.300 H&H was not loaded hot for use in places that are hot, Africa, India, etc.) .38/55? Nothing to improve.

So if you hunt a couple times a year for meat in the Rockies. Get up close. 50 yards or less. Shoot the young and dumb good eating, tender animals... factory .30/30 is o.k. As the distance gets greater, improving the same gun to .30/30 Imp and reaching the performance of approx. the .300 Savage makes the work a bit easier. At the same time you need custom dies... you burn more powder... Will you use the gun enough to make it a good investment or is this a toy without regard to costs?

When I was young and dumb, I asked by letter about improving the .308. Most graciously he pointed out to me that there wasn't much to gain. Body was almost straight already. Compare the .308 to the .300 Savage improved and what do you see. Longer neck on the .308.

.257 Improved treads on the heals of the .25/'06 with lighter bullets. Heavy bullets and more powder helps. Of course, the Bob (.257) was standardized at 45K CUP, thus the later +P loads.

So what do you want/need? You want top velocity (the .300 Ackley Magnum was out long before Mr. Weatherby began his "marketing" work) ??? You want longest case life? Or will any factory gun get the job done once a year when you go out with the boys? (and girls???) [Or are you the one who stays behind with the girls...???] The books are a treasure. Keep looking. eabco.com lists them. Third volume reportedly in the works but that has been forever. ?? Great foundation for anyone with this kind of interests. Mike Bellm, bellmtcs.com bought out Mr. Ackely. No idea if he has any books around. You could ask. Luck with your learning.
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post #8 of 32 (permalink) Old 05-15-2008, 11:30 AM
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Default Re: Which Ackley Improved Improves the Most??

OK that was interesting! Is there any advantage to 6.5 Swede AI to the 6.5 Swede? I have an Arg. Mauser I've been working on and it's time for a barrel.
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post #9 of 32 (permalink) Old 05-16-2008, 10:52 PM
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Default Re: Which Ackley Improved Improves the Most??

Quote:
Mr. Ackley was a trained engineer. Syracuse Univ??? Read his books and he makes the point that he "improved" cartridges to reduce the back thrust on the action and to keep the burning powder in the case extending barrel life and sharpened the shoulder to slow case lengthening.
Actually, P.O. sold us all a bill of goods with all his claims of 'reduced back thrust' - his mechanical engineering degree suggests he knew the truth . The thinking man already knows this too. Back thrust is controlled by the strength of the brass, not the case shape. Remember the incipient head separations so common on some magnum brass and the likes of the .35 Remington? That happens because the front portion of the case expands to grip the chamber walls, while the un-expanded thicker part of the case is slammed back against the breech, stretching the case if there is room or just transferring thrust if there is not. Most cartridges already do what Ackley claimed only his did. The .30-30 trick described in the above post has no science behind it and it is easy to demonstrate that it does not show more than slight-of-hand.

Note that I respected Parker a lot while he was alive, he built several rifles for me in the 1970s and we corresponded some. But he was in business to make a living and this 'back thrust' thing was just marketing. To me the real benefit of his 'so-called improved cartridges' (his term) was the increase in case capacity and thus the increased velocity. He still stands as one of the all-time leaders in firearms technology and design.

A fine explanation of Ackley's Mistake along with tests debunking his claims can be found in the November 2004 issue of Precision Shooting magazine.



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post #10 of 32 (permalink) Old 05-19-2008, 09:15 PM
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Default Re: Which Ackley Improved Improves the Most??

Here is a good article from PS on the Ackley
http://shootersforum.com/showthread.htm?t=5813
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