.458 1 1/3 - Graybeard Outdoors
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 14 (permalink) Old 02-06-2014, 04:10 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: -40F area Minn.
Posts: 11,703
Default .458 1 1/3

Okay gents, I have a revolver coming that is almost done by Huntington (which means I may get it next year, 2015).

It is chambered for Win. Mag. .458 cut down to one and one-third inches.

Beyond buying .458 cases, what else will I need.

I have a RCBS singe-shell at a time reloading kit so I have that, but beyond the obvious bullets, primers, etc. what could I need that I do not have.

One cannot go out and buy a die-set for an odd caliber.



RR
Bob Riebe is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 14 (permalink) Old 02-07-2014, 08:43 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 67
Default Re: .458 1 1/3

Hello Bob, you're going to need a reamer. Because the case is going to be much thicker at 1 1/3 inches, then at full length. And of course you are needed . A set of custom dies. Out of curiosity, why did you choose the 458 win. For this project.
deer140 is offline  
post #3 of 14 (permalink) Old 02-07-2014, 02:32 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: -40F area Minn.
Posts: 11,703
Default Re: .458 1 1/3

Ten years ago, back when Krieger was selling barrel blanks in a Pope style rifled barrel, in multiple sizes of blanks, i.e. thickness, I, while on the phone, did a guestimate with the help and agreement of the Krieger person, on what thickness I would need for a barrel to be machined down to a barrel, with link, for a LAR Grizzly .458 caliber.
Sadly we would have been correct for a 1911 but it was too thin for a LAR Grizzly and I did not want to pay shipping and the extra cost for a different larger thickness blank; therefore I had a .458 barrel blank that was sitting in the closest. (It would have made a fantastic way to beat a burglar to death)

I was speaking with Jack Huntington who was now working on said same Grizzly, to bore it out to .475 for Wildey cartridges.
I told him of the blank.
In the same conversation, I told him I had a Herter's .44 Mag. that needed work as the cylinder pin was shot.
To make a long story short, (Jack LOVES doing oddball jobs) we decided to re-barrel and re-chamber the Herter's to .458.
Now I had/have .458 mag. cases that came in a collector cartridge lot I bought on-line, plus I would not have to deal with the size of the rims of .458 silhouette rounds.

It was going to be a longer case, but Jack found out that even opening the frame window, a 1.3 case would be the best size without seriously restricting the size, length, of bullet than can be used.
Also Jack has been fascinated by the old 1.3 rimless round as it was used in 'Nam years earlier, so that was the size we agreed on. (I knew there was not room for a 1.6 but I had told Jack to make it as long as possible, even if it was odd sized.)

I had, had a Bowen .445 Max. revolver that I had wanted Jack to take out to .500 Linebaugh Long, but Jack said that conversion, even with the frame already be a Bisley frame, would cost with-in a small amount the same as doing the Herter's, so I sold the Bowen Revolver and sent Jack the Herter's and the barrel.

Oddly, I sent the Herter's over a year after I sent the Grizzly but while Jack found the Grizzly interesting, which is why he agreed to do it, the Herter's piqued his interest more, and he admitted to me that the Herter's was worked on more than the Grizzly, although modifying the Grizzly magazines turned out to be a far, far, far greater problem than anyone had imagined but the Grizzly and Herter's are now very close to the same point of being finished.

I love to talk to Jack as you find out the smallest items are often the biggest obstacle.
Two years for he Herter's and approx. four for the Grizzly. (He finally had to send the magazines out to be micro-welded but this is one of those gents, who does work few do, that does the work when he feels like doing it, so when Jack gets the mags back he will send the Grizzly home to me.)

I would HIGHLY recommend Jack for any work one needs done.

RR
Bob Riebe is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 14 (permalink) Old 02-08-2014, 11:29 AM
Senior Member
 
jedman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: NW Ohio , Oak Openings Area
Posts: 1,220
Gun Cabinet
Default Re: .458 1 1/3

WOW !! Jack might do good work but most of us dont have 4 + years to wait on a gun to be modified. You kind of lost me with your original question about what else will I need ?
That depends a lot on how these guns are chambered, If allowance for the thick walled brass was considered maybe just a standard 458 die set with the bottoms of the dies shortened would do ? ???
Sounds like you went to a lot of trouble to get something very much like the 454 Casual but if you need a rimless case I would have started with cut down 284 Win. brass instead of a belted mag case.
Really with the thicker case head and 1.3" length you will be at the same case capacity of a 45 Colt but will have a .458 bullet.
Good Luck with your pistols and let us know how they work out.


jedman

Still kickin
jedman is offline  
post #5 of 14 (permalink) Old 03-15-2014, 01:53 AM
Senior Member
 
Darkgael's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Brooklyn, NY and Sweet Valley, PA
Posts: 3,962
Gun Cabinet
Default Re: .458 1 1/3

Bob: Following an idea through that much time and planning shows a lot of focus.
Questions: Are you going to leave the belt on the case or machine it off?
I am curious about OAL of the finished cartridges.
What bullets do you envision using - the whole range of .458s, cast only, bullets from the lower end of the weight spectrum?
Have you, perhaps, made up a dummy cartridge? If so, a picture would be nice to see....(I suppose similar to but a tad shorter than the Barnes 1.5 in CotW).
At what pressures do these .458 shorties run?
As to equipment....you may already know this but just in case....Barnes' notes that you can "improvise by using 45 Colt or other 45 pistol dies."
Pete

NRA Life Member
NRA Certified Range Safety Officer.
Before you get into a discussion:
https://thebestschools.org/magazine/...noratioelenchi
Darkgael is online now  
post #6 of 14 (permalink) Old 03-22-2014, 02:11 AM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: -40F area Minn.
Posts: 11,703
Default Re: .458 1 1/3

Quote:
Originally Posted by darkgael
Bob: Following an idea through that much time and planning shows a lot of focus.
Questions: Are you going to leave the belt on the case or machine it off?
I am curious about OAL of the finished cartridges.
What bullets do you envision using - the whole range of .458s, cast only, bullets from the lower end of the weight spectrum?
Have you, perhaps, made up a dummy cartridge? If so, a picture would be nice to see....(I suppose similar to but a tad shorter than the Barnes 1.5 in CotW).
At what pressures do these .458 shorties run?
As to equipment....you may already know this but just in case....Barnes' notes that you can "improvise by using 45 Colt or other 45 pistol dies."
Pete
The idea to modify the Herter's started almost twenty years ago. I had, had Hamilton Bowen agree to work on it but lack of money and other ideas got in the way.
The current project really started about ten years ago after I spoke to John Linebaugh about the revolvers he had modified to take cut down .458 Win. Mag. rounds.
Back then I had money burning a hole in my pocket and I had intended to take a revolver to Africa to take a Cape Buffalo.
Well that money and that dream is long gone but I decided better to die broke and happy than pee and moan about what if.

The cartridge will seat on the belt; John said that that was better than dealing with the large rim of a 45-70 plus I had the empty cases lying around.
As Jack Huntington has a strong like for oddball items he will create the test rounds out of the cases I sent him.
Even with the frame window opened up Jack said it would be better to use a slightly shorter case 1.3 as it would give a large choice of bullets of less than 400 grains while seating the bullet in a normal matter.
I cannot give you oal as Jack last time I spoke to him Jack had ordered a custom reamer and he has not yet loaded any test cartridges.
The pressure will not be anything different from those used in a five shot Ruger although that depends on how hot one wants to go.

RR
Bob Riebe is online now  
post #7 of 14 (permalink) Old 03-25-2014, 05:31 AM
Senior Member
 
Darkgael's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Brooklyn, NY and Sweet Valley, PA
Posts: 3,962
Gun Cabinet
Default Re: .458 1 1/3

Thanks for the reply.
Pete

NRA Life Member
NRA Certified Range Safety Officer.
Before you get into a discussion:
https://thebestschools.org/magazine/...noratioelenchi
Darkgael is online now  
post #8 of 14 (permalink) Old 04-28-2014, 09:19 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 480
Default Re: .458 1 1/3

interestingly, this bears some similarity to a concept gun built in the late 70's or early 80's that was showcased, I believe, in guns and ammo. it was called the whithorse magnum, and was made with 2 cylinders, one with a shortened 458 mag case, with it's belted case, and the other had a rim, but I don't recall what the parent cartridge was for it.
rkeltner is offline  
post #9 of 14 (permalink) Old 04-28-2014, 09:23 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 480
Default Re: .458 1 1/3

just did a search, and I was wrong, both cases were belted! one was based on the 458, the other was based on the 460 weatherby. looked like quite a hanfull!!!
rkeltner is offline  
post #10 of 14 (permalink) Old 10-14-2014, 12:56 AM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: -40F area Minn.
Posts: 11,703
Default Re: .458 1 1/3

Well I spoke to Jack Huntington last week and he said I should have my Grizzly by Thanksgiving as the person in Mich. doing the magazine mods. is finally sending them back, one by one.
I will not hold my breath.
Jack has moved to Sparks, Nv. from California.


RR
Bob Riebe is online now  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Graybeard Outdoors forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome