The 308x45 Project - 30cal Hunting Round for the Recoil Shy, Kids or the Elderly - Graybeard Outdoors
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post #1 of 46 (permalink) Old 02-23-2018, 08:03 PM Thread Starter
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Default The 308x45 Project - 30cal Hunting Round for the Recoil Shy, Kids or the Elderly

Wildcatting is a mental disease. A while back 223 Short/22 Mamba/24 Mamba team member George found a 308 Winchester take-off SS barrel locally for me. While not knowing what to do with it, I mulled over a few ideas, and came up with a 308x45 <--- I know that is a mixture of American and Metric measurements, but considering all other short 308 cartridge names in use, it is the only one that fit.

I hate recoil, and wondered if we shortened the 308 to the same length as the 223 Remington, resulting in the powder capacity to match the 22-250, could I have a decent hunting rifle.

George took 0.255" off the 308 chamber. George took 0.255" off a Lee FL Sizer die, and beveled the opening 60. The Lee Collet Neck Sizer can be trimmed the same amount without interfering with its mechanics. I calculated that the new max body taper would be 0.003" less than the standard 308. Actually the same diameter made by a small-base FL sizer die. No change to shoulder angle, no change to neck length.

George removed the guts from the FL Sizer and ran a case thru, and trimmed the excess 0.255" off the neck. He added some threads to the barrel to bring it back to standard number of threads.

As the new neck is made from thicker bras than standard 308 necks, we had to make a fool-proof hand reamer to take a few thou out of the chamber neck, unless you want to internally ream every case after forming. Discussion later.

And there you have it.

My prediction is that it will make a really nice deer rifle with light bullets for the recoil shy, kids or the elderly, that will punch a decent size hole in the game.

Final Spec Drawing. Nice to have a wildcat that does not require a finish chamber reamer, an optional finish neck reamer, no custom dies just minor mods to off-the-shelf dies and only a small case forming and trim of about 1/4", and an existing barrel setback without a rechamber. The finished case and trimmed FL Sizer with beveled opening shown, next to a yet to be fire formed 24 Mamba.

Of course, if the wildcat sickness befalls us after we have produced this one, I see a 358 version in my future, especially as George pointed out the vast array of cheap bullets available along with the full range of regular 358 hunting bullets. Then of course there is the potential for a 264x45 using a 6.5 Creedmoor barrel with its less case taper, longer neck and 30 shoulder, if I did not want to go straight 260 Remington.
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post #2 of 46 (permalink) Old 02-24-2018, 08:42 AM
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Brian,

This sounds a lot like the way I made the original 223 short sizing die. After removing some ( don't remember how much ) off the bottom of the 221 Fireball die. And while it was running true in the lathe Chuck I used a dremel tool grinder and beveled the bottom diameter so it would just clear the solid head diameter of the FB case and tried to blend that into the overall case taper.
On your 45 mm case you could have used the cut down 308 die at the diameter it was and used either 7 X 64 or 7 X 65 R brass and your shortened chamber on a 308 take off barrel would be about perfect but the cost of the brass is much higher than 308 Win.
Then you would have something you could name without using 308 as the parent.

Keep up the good work !

Jedman

Still kickin
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post #3 of 46 (permalink) Old 03-04-2018, 01:03 AM Thread Starter
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Jed, great to hear from you. I just got lazy and figured I can get the once fired bulk 308 brass cheap, and I am already set up for bulk case cutting because of the 223 Short, so that is how I got there, very quickly this time.

I want to thank you again for your pioneering work on the Short, we would never have got it done without you. Looks like the 22 Mamba version is the result of all that hard work so many years ago now. I am having a Savage barrel rechambered to the 22 Mamba later as I have decided to keep my 223 Rem. barrel and play with that for a while too.

So I blame you and Larry for getting me into this fine mess, when all I can think about is the "next" project...however, the 308x45 and the 24 Mamba will be plenty to keep me busy for a long time I think.

I am currently dealing with the removal of a round Savage barrel nut, and after the frustration and extensive reading I now know a pipe wrench is in my future as the Wheeler wrench for round barrel nuts is less than useless. Needless to say I have already purchased my replacement standard barrel nut. And the learning curve continues unabated. Pipe wrench here I come!

Last edited by briannmilewis; 03-13-2018 at 06:34 AM.
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post #4 of 46 (permalink) Old 03-11-2018, 10:00 PM Thread Starter
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Default Weaver Manual Torque Screwdriver for Savage Accustock

Just got my Weaver Manual Torque Screwdriver, $64, free Amazon Prime shipping, ordered at 2am this morning, arrived 6pm. <--- Must have a warehouse somewhere nearby I reckon.

I got this because my Savage 16 has an Accustock built-in aluminum bedding frame. It needs to be screwed down to specific torque specs, 45 in/lbs, in 10 in/lbs increments. Also comes with a Calibration Certification Sheet so you can actually tell the "slop" in the indicated torque.

Wheeler, Weaver, Stark, Craftsman and others all sell basically the same unit, but some have different ranges of torque, I had to get at least 50 in/lbs for my Accustock.

It will also be useful for torquing down scope mounts and rings to specific recommendations.

You will need one if you buy one of the new Savage 110 Storm rifles, which come with 5 cheek risers, and 4-LOP spacers, Accustock and Accutrigger.

Looks like Savage has discontinued the Savage 16 FLCSS in 223 Rem. The Storm has a Suggested Retail $150 less than a Savage 16 SS, but that only translates to about $50 savings if you look at Bud's intro price, which may be higher than it will settle at in the longterm.
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post #5 of 46 (permalink) Old 03-15-2018, 02:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by briannmilewis View Post



Of course, if the wildcat sickness befalls us after we have produced this one, I see a 358 version in my future, especially as George pointed out the vast array of cheap bullets available along with the full range of regular 358 hunting bullets. Then of course there is the potential for a 264x45 using a 6.5 Creedmoor barrel with its less case taper, longer neck and 30 shoulder, if I did not want to go straight 260 Remington.


Google the .358 Hoosier.

Probably lots of barrels, dies, and brass floating or sitting around since Indiana opened up firearms season to .243 and up now.

Still living under the curse, but one of these days I will shed this body, be clothed with an immortal one, and everything will be good.
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post #6 of 46 (permalink) Old 03-17-2018, 02:31 AM Thread Starter
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Just read up on it, sounds like the ticket, a little more complicated than a straight 308 version but I get it.

Mine i the lazy man's version, no special dies, no special barrels, same amount of brass prep.

Max case length of 1.76 will allow anyone to do a small barrel setback to their AR in 308 if they are so inclined. Gas ports may be an issue, but with such a large cartridge maybe not.

So you are guessing the 358 Hoosier is done for because they allow full size 308 family cases now?

Thanks for the tip.
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post #7 of 46 (permalink) Old 03-19-2018, 04:50 PM
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Some of the ones out there will still be used I am sure, but I don't hear of any more newbies jumping to the Hoosier when they can do it with a .308 or -06.

I had heard of several for sale last year.

Still living under the curse, but one of these days I will shed this body, be clothed with an immortal one, and everything will be good.
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post #8 of 46 (permalink) Old 03-24-2018, 02:59 AM Thread Starter
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Default Cutting off the 0.255" of the Formed 308x45 Cartridge Case

There are some popular tools to achieve this apparently trivial task.

Harbor Freight sell a small cut-off saw under $100 which is very popular with the 300 BLKOUT adopters, who form a short case from a 223 Rem parent case and cut off the excess. Initially for the 223 Short project I contacted Squirrel Daddy on eBay, maker of the 300 BLKOUT jigs if he could make one for the 223 Short. He did, didn't charge me extra, and I got on with cutting cases. I discovered quickly I need a system to cut production quantities of 400-600 per hour, and the HF saw was not going to cut it, so to speak. I know of numerous folks who use them for everyday case cutting for their wildcats who are not interested in large quantity processing.

I graduated to the industrial quality and much more expensive Proxxon KGS80 Micro Cut-Off/Mini-Mitre Saw, that sells for about $250, and can be pressed into production work with all sorts of materials if needed. The limitations of the Proxxon are the lateral adjustment shaft needs a nut with set screw added to the end of the shaft, or you can try a thread locker of medium strength. Also, there is .004" lateral movement in the cutting head/handle, so the Proxxon is only as good as that. Also, you need to change the 24 tooth blade for the 36 tooth blade when working with cartridges smaller than the 50 BMG.

I am sure a Dremel could be pressed into service, a cut-off wheel on a drill, etc, etc.

No matter what, you will need some kind of traditional case trimmer to dial in the 1.750" 308x45 nominal trim length and then process the case neck for chamfer and deburr. I have chosen the Trim-It II - can be chucked into a cordless driver and trims, chamfers and deburrs in one action.
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post #9 of 46 (permalink) Old 03-27-2018, 09:18 AM
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Yeah, I like my $30 HF mini chop saw. I would have to look (as I don't remember), but I did find a cutoff abrasive wheel that was thin enough to not bog it down and also lasted through several hundred .308 cases while cutting them down for the .358 Hoosier. Use it for cutting down my carbon arrow shafts, too.

If I were planning to do a few hundred per hour I would definitely step up to the larger saw, too.

Still living under the curse, but one of these days I will shed this body, be clothed with an immortal one, and everything will be good.
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post #10 of 46 (permalink) Old 04-07-2018, 04:00 AM Thread Starter
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Default Tool for Estimating Rifle Barrel Life

Found a fun little rifle barrel life calculator.

You can download the spreadsheet at: https://goo.gl/tFbF7H

This little rifle powder chart goes along with it.
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