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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
hello guys,,,,,,,,,,
i've got an old .35 rem marlin lever action.
and a rem 760 pump in .300 savage
they are both super nice,

both are shooting nice tight groups out at 100 yards
i just caint make up my mind wich is best...

buckweet
 

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buckweet said:
hello guys,,,,,,,,,,
i've got an old .35 rem marlin lever action.
and a rem 760 pump in .300 savage
they are both super nice,

both are shooting nice tight groups out at 100 yards
i just caint make up my mind wich is best...

buckweet
Hi Buckweet!
From the current Speer's 13th Edition Reloading Manual:

.35 Remington w/ Speers 180 Grain .358"Flat nosed-SP
Re 12... .....40.0gr. to 44.0gr.(compressed) 1967 to 2224 fps max velocity
IMR 4320....32.0gr. to 36.0 gr. 1729 to 1983 fps max velocity

.35 Remington w/ Speers 220 Grain .358" Flat nosed-SP
Re12 35.0gr. to 39.0gr.(compressed) 1721 to 1922 fps max velocity
AA 2015BR 29.0gr. to 33.0 gr. 1665 to 1901 fps max velocity

.300 Savage w/150 Grain .308" Spitzer-SP
Viht. N140 40.0gr. to 44.0gr.(compressed) 2405 to 2663 fps max velocity
Re12 41.0gr. to 45.0gr.(compressed) 2398 to 2662 fps max velocity

.300 Savage (recommended 180 Grain .308"Mag. Tip-SP)
Re15 39.0gr. to 43.0gr.(compressed) 2277 to 2469 fps max velocity
Viht. N140 38.0gr. to 42.0gr.(compressed) 2228 to 2462 fps max velocity

Jim
 

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You don't mention what you plan to hunt with it, but both are excellent cartridges for deer and black bear, but if I were hunting and longer ranges or going for moose, I'd favour the .300 Savage. And that's a tough admission for a .35 calibre guy. :roll:

Since I've been on the net, I've often seen threads that go something like "What .300 Should I Buy?". My answer has invariably been to buy the best ".300" ever made - the .300 Savage. :twisted:
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
yup...im having a love affair with the ol' .300 savage...
im hunting deer here in central missouri
[and anything else] lol !!!
sheesh,i like them all...tonight i draged out the ol' 30-06 rem 742...thats nice too !!!
buckweet
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
hummm ???
as i set here.im looking at four rifles....
760 rem pump .300 savage
marlin 336 [no cross bolt] yea!!! .35 rem
742 rem auto, .30-06
savage M99F rotary mag,montycarlo stock,nice !! .308 win
dont think i'll be needing any ''new'' rifles soon ???
i like em all !!!
buckweet
 

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DLuke:

Life can be pretty dull if you let the tide carry you in one direction, and then bring you right back to where you started. :? I like a change of scenery once in a while. :wink:

Rick
 

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The .300 Savage cartridge is a considerably higher-velocity, flatter-shooting cartridge than the old .35 Remington... and it is an excellent deer cartridge. A "decent" hit with a 150 grain bullet out of a .300 Savage guarantees venison on your table.

My eastern deer rifle is a Model 99 Savage topped by a 3x-9x Bushnell variable scope with a 24-inch barrel in .300 Savage caliber.

The 150 grain hunting bullet "shines" in the .300 Savage. The 180 grain bullet is really a tad too heavy for the .300 Savage's smallish case.

My hunting handload is 41.5 grains of IMR4895 behind a Nosler Ballistic Tip, boat-tailed bullet seated so that the overall length of the cartridge is 2.600-inches. I use Winchester cartridge cases and standard Winchester Large Rifle Primers. This load averages a muzzle velocity of 2664 fps and is SAFE in MY RIFLE, but may NOT be safe in your rifle. Therefore, you should work up to the maximum load carefully... watching for high pressure signs.

This load is very accurate in my rifle... consistently averaging 3-shot groups of no more than .75-inches (3/4") over a large number of groups. The smallest group so far using 41.5 grains of IMR4895 has been .3125-inchs (5/16").

However, when I was "working up" the loads using IMR4895, I got a .1825-inch (3/16ths") 3-group (2622 fps) using 41.0 grains and a .375-inch (3/8ths") 3-shot group (2644 fps) using 41.2 grains. So I know that, "accuracy-wise", I'm in the "sweet spot" for this powder/component combination. I am sure I could improve the group's sizes if I had more than a 9X scope and a better trigger on the rifle.

The trigger on this Model 99 isn't very good... it feels like it's about a 7 lb. trigger with a lot of creep. I prefer a crisp 2-2½ lb trigger with no creep. I'd have it cleaned up, but there aren't any local gunsmiths I'd trust doing the job properly... and I won't ship it anywhere for fear of theft or damage, so that's out, too... so I guess I'll just "live-with-it", eh?

Currently, I'm just beginning to work up some new loads using Hodgdon's "Varget" rifle powder. According to the newest Lyman Reloading Manual that just came out, the technicians at Lyman got 2740 fps out of a 150 grain bullet using a MAXIMUM LOAD 42.0 grains of Varget while registering only 43,000 C.U.P. The SAAMI average pressure for the .300 Savage round is 46,000 C.U.P., so that's a great velocity increase given the less than maximum pressure.

Incidentally, this 42.0 grain load of Varget was also Lyman's "accuracy load", so it's going to be interesting to find out if I can increase my rifle's muzzle velocity by 80 fps and still retain or even "better" the fine accuracy I got from the IMR4895 rifle powder.

If it is possible to attain a muzzle velocity of 2740 fps from a .300 Savage cartridge without excessive case-neck stretching or other pressure signs, then the 1920's era .300 Savage cartridge will closely rival of the much more modern .308 Winchester.

Good Hunting!!!

Strength & Honor,

Ron T.
 

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Ron T,

Nice Work!!!!! .......................... Keep up the great effort on finding tha perfect .300 Savage load. I'm looking into my next powder/bullet selection so I would appreciate hearing how the Varget/Nosler Ballistic Tip 150's works out. I've been using Hornady #3031 150 grain SP's and IMR 4320. Loaded down in the mid-ranges of 38.3 to 40.2 grains yield 2400-2500 fps. and decent accuracy with mild recoil.

Interesting that you are using boat-tails. Are they working out better than the square based Hornady's or Rem's core-loks?

Jim
 

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300 savage

When the military and Winchester wanted to change from 30-06 to a new round they used the 300 savage as a model. All they basically did was boost the length and neck length just a little and wonder of wonders the 308. The old 300 can do anything a 308 can do but is more difficult to reload because of neck length. the comparison with a 35 is a little unfair since the 35 has a definite place when hunting in close brush if a quick pointing and handling rifle. Look at the Taylor Knock Down rating on a 35 it competes with a 30-06. So you with both have all the bases coverd Just figure out what to carry on opening day is the big issue. Good luck I have a similar problem.
 

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I am a long time owner of a .300 Savage. And in my younger days I looked down my nose at the .35 Remington. Then an employee showed me in two deer seasons just how effective the round is.

We had had a number of lunch box discussion about the .35 Remington so when he collected his deer he invited me and my skinning knife over. One shot kills between 50 and 100 yards. What else would a hunter want. I have hunted the same country with a .300 Sav., a .270, and a 7 Mag. Shots on that hillside will seldom exceed 150 yards. The .35 Remington did what the other calibers would have done. I think it is a great round for brush, woodland hunting. I have a great deal of respect for the man and his rifle.

Having said that, if offered a .300 Sav. or a .35 Remington to hunt country in which shots up to 200-250 yards maybe offered I would take the .300 Savage based on my experience with that round using 150 grain and 165 grain handloads. I like the 165 grain loads for when my partner goes after black bear.

Siskiyou
 

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Jim (Savage T).....

Thanx for the compliments. Unfortunately, I can't tell you what the Nosler Ballistic Tip boat-tails are doing "down range" (they're suppose to "hold" their velocity better than "flat-based" bullets), but 15 feet from my rifle's muzzle where I set up my chronograph, the Nosler Ballistic Tip, boat-tails are EXACTLY and CONSISTENTLY 30 fps FASTER with every “maximum” powder load of IMR3031, IMR4895 and IMR4064 than the Hornady 150 grain BOAT-TAIL BULLETS. Both bullets have the nylon/plastic tipped nose.

I haven't tried any "flat-based" bullets so I can't say what the "difference", if any, would be. I can only account for that consistent velocity difference by assuming it has something to do with possibly a longer bearing surface on the Hornady Bullet running on the barrel’s lans and grooves vs. a somewhat shorter bearing surface on Nosler Bullet. Something is slowing the Hornady Bullet down by a consistent 30 feet per second.

In hunting loads, increased down-range bullet velocity means increased ft/lbs of bullet energy.

Hornady makes great bullets… I used their 50 grain “SX” bullets for years in my .222, but I wish they'd take the "crimping grooves" (can't remember how to spell their name... is it "canitures"?) off their 150 grain, .30 caliber bullets. I prefer to seat the bullets in my handloads where I WANT THEM, not where a manufacture decides to put those little vertical "crimping grooves" on the bullets.

This is especially true of "single loaded" bullets that don't have to fit inside the rifle's magazine. Using single loaded bullets, as in "varmint hunting", the initial bullet put in the rifle's chamber might be only .001 to .002 inches from "touching" the barrel's lans and grooves... meaning the bullet has been set out farther in the cartridge case neck than normal to increase accuracy. The bullet is set out far too much to fit in or work through the rifle’s magazine, I.E., the overall length of the round is too long to "work" through the rifle's magazine.

That may sound odd unless one realizes that in varmint hunting... especially with a super-accurate rifle... one shot is all that's ever taken at a "target"... no more shots are needed or necessary. And so, there's no real disadvantage for the projectiles to be set out further and cause the overall cartridge length to be too long to fit or function through the rifle's magazine.

When I did a lot of varmint hunting (mostly woodchucks) when I was younger. I kept 3 rounds with deeper seated bullets and a shorter OAL (“Over All Length”) expressly for putting them into and working them through the removable clip in my heavy-barreled .222 Sako varmint rifle. Years went by and I never used a single round from the magazine because another "shot" was never necessary... OR... the initial shot I took missed, and the 'chuck scurried down it's hole and didn't come back out. I’d love to say it was ALWAYS the “former”, but it was also the “latter” sometimes.

I would try to set up AT LEAST 150 yards, but no greater than 250 yards, from a chuck's hole. I refused shots of less than 150 yards because a short shot of that range or less was just too easy with the extremely accurate .222. My best bench-rest, 5-shot group with that rifle was/is a .086-inch group... that's right, less than 1/10th of an inch... no brag, just fact. It's the rifle that can shoot that well... I'm just holding onto it.

YIKES!!! I've "done it" again... I've totally digressed off the subject. Sorry... can't help it... love to talk about guns and loads and shooting and hunting... and... and... and... ohhhhh, never mind! (Grumble.. grumble)

Ok, Jim... when I shoot the .300 Savage "for record" using the Varget rifle powder, I'll let you know what happens. I've got all my loads already loaded... 3 shots each of the Varget powder beginning at 'way down there with the lighter loads and working up in 2/10ths of a grain increments all the way to .2 of a grain over "maximum load". Yeah, I "know"... you're NOT supposed to exceed "maximum load".

The truth is... I often NEVER GET to "maximum load"... either the accuracy goes to "goes to pot" first... or I get too many high-pressure "signs" and stop below "max. load".

Jim... it's my person opinion that IMR4320 powder is too slow for the .300 Savage case. I noted, during my tests with IMR3031, IMR4895 and IMR4064 that I ran out of case capacity BEFORE I achieved reasonably high velocity using the 150 grain Nosler Ballistic Tip Bullet with IMR4064... and IMR4320 is even SLOWER than IMR4064. I don't mean IMR4320 won't "shoot" in a .300 Savage rifle... it "shoots" quite well according to one of my old Lyman Reloading Handbooks (45th Edition, circa 1970) which shows an "Accuracy Load" using a 150 grain spitzer bullet and a Model 99 with a 22-inch barrel. The Accuracy Load was 42.0 grains of IMR4320 yielding 2590 fps out of the 22-inch barrel of a Model 99 which was used for testing purposes.

However, the same loading tables indicated the “Factory Duplication Load” was 43.2 grains of IMR4320 yielding 2659 fps. NOTE: Max. load was shown as 43.5 grains of IRM4320, but that was back in 1970, not necessarily with today’s powder. Naturally, when working up a load, one should always start with a reduced load and work “UP” with caution… constantly watching for high-pressure signs.

Did you ever TRY to “stuff “ 43.5 grains of ANY kind of rifle powder into a .300 Savage cartridge case?!?!? It won’t GO without the base of the bullet “crunching and munching” the top layer or so of the IMR4320 into a fine “powder” rather than the “granule form” in which it comes. Obviously, the “burning rate” is being changed as those powder granules are CRUSHED by the base of the bullet. THAT “scares” me and I’m “fearless”! Hahahahahahaha……

I’ll keep you informed as to the results I get with the Hodgdon Varget rifle powder. I’m not sure where it falls on the Burning Rate Tables, but I’d guess it somewhere between IMR4895 and IMR4064… but I could be wrong. We’ll see…….

In my initial tests with max. loads of IMR3031, 4895 and 4064, I found that the loads containing the Federal and Winchester standard large rifle primers were the most consistent shot-to-shot loads.

On 6/17/02 at a temperature of 73ºF, using max loads of IMR3031 (40.0 grains), I had an average MV of 2644 using standard Winchester large rifle primers with a maximum deviation of +9 and –8 for an average velocity deviation of just 17 fps.

On the same day under the same conditions, using standard Federal large rifle primers and a max load of IMR3031, I got an average MV of 2654 fps with a standard deviation of just 11 fps (+7, -4 fps). HOWEVER, while the rounds using the Winchester primers shot small tight groups, the rounds using the Federal primers consistently had either one or two “fliers” causing the otherwise extremely tight group to open up to over an inch at 100 yards.

On 6/24/02 at 85ºF, using a maximum listed load consisting of 41.5 grains of IMR4895 and a standard Winchester large rifle primer yielded 2664 fps with a standard deviation of 19 fps (+9, - 10 fps) giving a .3125-inch (5/16ths of an inch) 3-shot group.

The smallest 3-shot group I’ve ever fired with this M-99 Savage in .300 Savage caliber was fired on 6/24/02 at a temperature of 85ºF and consisted of a load of 41.1 grains of IMR4895, a 150 grain Nosler Ballistic Tip, boat-tailed bullet in Winchester twice-fired brass and using standard Winchester large rifle primers which yielded a MV of 2647 fps with a standard deviation of just 13 fps (+6, -7 fps). This group measured .1875-inches (3/16ths of an inch)… 1/8-inch or .1250 inches smaller than the max. load group which measured .3125-inches (5/16ths of an inch).

WHEW! That’s enough information for tonight… my fingers are getting sore.

Tha… tha… that’s all, Folks……..

Strength & Honor,

Ron T.
 

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you have your bases pretty well covered with those two rounds. The way I see it you are all set for hunting the woods and thickets with the unscoped .35 Rem lever. And a nice telescopic sight makes your 22" barreled 760 in .300 Savage a natural "sneak and peek" gun for slipping around the fields.

The .300 Savage has a distinct trajectory advantage in factory form. But put the .35 Rem into a 760 pump and load up with some stout handloads with 150, 180, 200, and 220 grain bullets and the gap could be mighty close.

What could be better than having a light, sturdy open sighted lever gun for the thick places and a tight grouping scope sighted pump rifle for reaching out some? You've got a couple of nice ones for sure.

Also I feel that your .35 could be effective on moose and bear at close range with a hard hitting 220 grain load. Buffalo Bore is now loading a heavy 220 grainer for the .35 Rem. Might try out a box myself.
 

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When I was a kid I was told the 300 Savage was a junk cartridge. These were the days of magnum mania. Later as a hand loader I started reading about it. The 300 Sav is no joke. Years later I had a chance for a Pa. deer hunt. I had brought some some rifles I had been working on for my brother and didn't have space for my own. I barrowed a 99 Savage f chambered in 300Savage, I own one in 308 with a 2x7 leupold. It had a fixed 4x scope that was cheap but functional. I used old Rem green box 180 grain RN bullets and sighted in at 200yrds. I took two shots that day, the first was at a running coyote at 200 yrds and I droprd him clean with a low lung shot. The second was a deer at 281 yrds. He was on the drop of a hill so I couldn't get a good chest shot. I hit him at the base of the skull. Like I said before the 300 Savage is no joke.
The Savage 99 and the Rem 740 have bad triggers but both can be repaired. I find the Savage cleaned up beter than the 7600 my son owns but the Rem trigger is acceptable now.
BTW I'm using Varget in my 308 under 150gr Sierra Game Kings wiTh amazing results and Varget is not temp sensitive.
 

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I have 2 35 Remingtons in Marlin 336's and one in a Remington 760. I have been looking at Remington 760's in 300 Savage, because I think it's a good 30 caliber round, especially in the 760 pump. When I find a 760 to match my 35 (it's a 1954 model) in 300 Savage, I'll probably buy it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Halwg said:
I have 2 35 Remingtons in Marlin 336's and one in a Remington 760. I have been looking at Remington 760's in 300 Savage, because I think it's a good 30 caliber round, especially in the 760 pump. When I find a 760 to match my 35 (it's a 1954 model) in 300 Savage, I'll probably buy it.

yep !! i'ed buy another one !!!

weet
 
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