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350 Legend

12K views 23 replies 7 participants last post by  Jdcujo 
#1 ·
Pulled the trigger on a 20" blued MGM .350 Legend barrel yesterday. Range reports, pics, thoughts to follow soon...

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#3 ·
Encore. Got the forend and scopebase from Marty at Haus of Arms. Forend is heavy contour, standard length. Looks odd on a 20" barrel. Trying to find out if they make a spotter or carbine forend. No luck so far. May have to cut 3 or 4" off and remount sling stud...

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#4 ·
Bought 40 rounds of Winchester 145fmj to plink with while breaking in the barrel. Have experienced 2 blown primers, 5 excessively flattened primers, and 8 rounds that looked like they were swept up off the floor after several days (although they did clean up fine with windex). After noticing the primers, I decided to measure the cases. Had a minimum 1.686 to maximum 1.710. Blown primers were in the middle of the lengths with what I would say as normal looking fired primers. I measured COAL and they were all over the place too. Have only shot 2 180 power points and they were normal and in spec. Many of the unfired 145's are obviously over crimped, visible with the naked eye. I would advise people to be careful with the 145fmj. Going to get several more 180's fired next couple of days to make sure they aren't over pressured. Don't know where to post this to get the word out, moderators please feel free to move or repost as needed for the benefit of the people. 17 of the 18 145's did hit where expected and fired good groups.


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#5 ·
I'd be sending those spent rounds back to Winchester and asking for an explanation. Winchester has some serious quality control issues to address.

Since the 350 legends headspaces off the case mouth it is critical that the cases be the same length for the crimps to be consistent. An over crimped round in any chambering that headspaces off of the case mouth can lead to excess pressure. In many firearms an over crimped case will move forward enough that the firing pin will not strike the primer hard enough to fire it. However the TC once shooters (at least the ones that I have had) are not known for sloppy tolerances and thus the crimped part of the round could reach into the throat and still be positioned so that the firing pin will reach the primer. The case neck cannot expand properly and pressures spike.

This is absolutely no fault of TC's but clearly a Winchester boo boo!

I had the exact same issue with the 450 Bushmaster round when they came out. I only roll my own now!
 
#11 ·
Got to the range Saturday for some 100 yd work. Hornady 170gr Interloks. The barrel shot well after first 3 shots. So it definitely likes a fouled barrel. Shots 4-6 turned in a 3/4" group. Next 4 3 shot groups were 1 to 1 1/4 inches. Last 5 showed some horizontal string to the left as the barrel heated up. Still just over 2" with less than a half inch vertical. After 15 shot the primers started showing slightly flattened. One more trip to the range and see how those Winchester 180's do. Unless something exceptional happens, I'm going to start building my reloading brass with Hornady. Minimum variation with fired brass. 30 rounds, + .002/- .001.

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#13 ·
Winchester called me back today. Guess what, nothing wrong with their ammo. Well, Winchester, did you measure the case lengths? I had fired cases from 1.683 to 1.715. SAAMI spec is 1.700 to 1.710. That can be clearly and precisely measured. They are sending me a check for the 2 boxes of ammo. I call this plausible deniability in the eminent damage to someones gun and worse. As soon as I get about 20 more Hornady's shot, I'm rolling my own!

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#14 ·
Winchester called me back today. Guess what, nothing wrong with their ammo. Well, Winchester, did you measure the case lengths? I had fired cases from 1.683 to 1.715. SAAMI spec is 1.700 to 1.710. That can be clearly and precisely measured. They are sending me a check for the 2 boxes of ammo. I call this plausible deniability in the eminent damage to someones gun and worse. As soon as I get about 20 more Hornady's shot, I'm rolling my own!

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So did Winchester have an explanation for the problem? Your Encore? The MGM barrel? Maybe operator error? :mad:
 
#16 ·
In the meantime they are most likely chewing someone's butt in quality control for turning out a shoddy product so they don't get more letters like yours or worse!

Your spent case lengths are all the proof I need and they know it too. They have a bad case of the Ostrich syndrome and it could come back to bight em in the arse!
 
#17 ·
In the meantime they are most likely chewing someone's butt in quality control for turning out a shoddy product so they don't get more letters like yours or worse!

Your spent case lengths are all the proof I need and they know it too. They have a bad case of the Ostrich syndrome and it could come back to bight em in the arse!
The "worse" part is what scares me. Heaven forbid it happens, but if it does I hope Winchester gets their ass handed to them.
 
#18 ·
Yup join the club Winchester brass is all over the map!! Case lengths from far too long to way short. They aughta be ashamed producing junk like that!

I probably wont buy anymore as I now have plenty of brass. Graff & Son has once fired.

But I bought 8 boxes of 145g fmj. I shot about a box and a half and had some smeared and popped primers. I pulled everything!!! Tossed bullets weighed powder. Then trimmed cases to a uniform 1.700. Charged each case with a average of what the factory used and then sized a Hornady 140 FTX to .356 and seated it on top. This load has proven my very best accuraxy wise. Its clocking 2350 and shoots sub MOA!

I was able to get some 165 FTX from Midway and using 296 powder found a good accurate load @ 2250 fps. Accuracy is jus over 1” but it holds and nice 2” group @ 200 Too!

Waiting to get more of these 165’s


CW
 
#21 ·
Very interesting! I bet your resizing of those FTXes to .356 is actually truing them up and making them very uniform...hence the great accuracy that you are getting.

I have not yet pulled the trigger and bought a 350 Legend but you guys are about to push me over the edge. I have two different scenarios as far as my Iowa deer hunting goes. My 450 Bushwaker with slow lead bullets will work great for in the thick stuff but I am moving to western Iowa next spring where the geography is much more open, Lots of ditches and weed patches that are full of nice deer. However shooting them at 50 yards probably isn't going to happen. I like the numbers that you are getting with those resized FTX bullets. Boy, ya sure got my wheels spinning and I think Brownells has one of those "GO WILD" Ruger Americans on sale in 350 Legend. However I look at so many guns when I am there that I could be confused. It warrants another look! I always by my own Christmas presents and am good out to 2050 so this would be my 2051 present. :tango_face_angel: What? I could live that long.... people make it to 100 all the time. Nuttin wrong with dying ahead in the game either.:tango_face_devil:
 
#19 ·
Can you spy the problem?

Taken from same box lot number.. FACTORY 145g.
Ammunition Bullet Gun accessory Brass Metal
 
#20 ·
Can you spy the problem?

Taken from same box lot number.. FACTORY 145g.
View attachment 236772
Well if Winchester quality control isn't going to use calipers in there quality control then they ought to at least get all of their production workers one of those keychain tape measures so they could keep them within a 16th of an inch.

That is horrible. The company that makes Winchester ammo is a subsidiary company of both Browning and FN Herstal(both owned by Olin) and I can't see either of those parent companies or Olin putting up with much of that kind of shoddy work. I understand that the demand is very high right now for 300 Legend ammo but throwing caution to the wind in the way of an unsafe product should not be promisable.
 
#22 ·
Yes I saw some of the new guns in 350. That one Stainless and the 20” Go wild are appealing!!

Im worried about the 140 up close. But as a longer range proposition. ( if ya can call 150-200 longer) It might just be great! Its surely gonna dumpall it has!!

Thoe165’z are appealing too. Esp at nearly 2300!!! FTX generally expand quick n easy.

Good thing is if you dont like sales aughta be easy. But you know tour gonna like. At less than 500 for s MOA GUN. Is a DEAL.

CW
 
#23 ·
That picture from cwlongshot is EXACTLY what I tried to explain to Winchester. Guarantee one of thos 2 rounds will go excessive pressure. One of those is too short or too long and the long one is excessively over crimped. I have since switched to Hornady 170's very consistent in measures and on paper. Am slowly building my reloading set as there isn't much out there yet. After FL resizing the Hornady, they grew several thousandths and will need trimmed. Going to try neck resizing and expanding with my 357mag dies. Need to lay in some bullets next. Find resizing the FTX interesting...

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