Took the max out with JPH45's recommended load of 26grs of AA1680 under remington 180gr SJHP's with small rifle primers, at 100yrds and a cheap 3-9x40 scope. I did a 2 1/8 in group, not to bad for me, this is to be a hunting load. Thinks JPH45 they work. I also tried some 200 gr barns with the same load but not with as good results. On a sad note I took my 30-30, witch I have done little with had put on a Simmons scope I had laying around. The scope was blown I mean can't see a thing through it. Now I need a new scope. It was still fun.