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Discussion Starter #1
Want a .358 Win in a lever action, try a 99 Savage? Some were originally produced in that caliber, some were converted by rebarreling a .308 Win to convert to .358 Win

Savage was/is the consumate lever action. Of course, Marlin, Winchester, Sako, and others have made good ones, too!
 

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358 Winchester

Good reading on the .358 Winchester; BTW, once you delete the comma at the end of the link it will function as intended.

What is your impression of the .358, from one who is interested but has never fired one ? :?:

There seems to be a trend in getting high performance out of short cases lately, i.e. the WSM, some "wildcats", as well as "Big-Bore". Do you think in the near future the .358 will rise out of the ashes of near obscurity to grace the cover of a gun magazine, or will it only win the hearts and minds of true believers? :?:
 

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Advocate

Just curious, how come you don't register on GB's board? You obviously have much to offer here and your verbiage is quite interesting to this Ole Coug. :lol:

I have done a fair amount of shooting with the 358 in a pair of the older BLRs, and I also had one in a Remington custom bolt.

The 358 is where recoil, IMO, starts to affect a shooter. That is to say, a gent who has been shooting say a 308 with 150 to 180 grain bullets is going to notice an increase in recoil, and will percieve it differently.
That does by no means make it unshootable, I only mention it because it is so.

The late Jack O'Connor was mystified that the 358 did not dominate the market, when it came out, logic dictated it should have. But the high velocity craze was in transition and the 358 as he put it, did not wow the boys.

It always has been, and always will be, an effective round for the folks who recognize it for what it is, like us :wink:

In as far as the current and future market, I think I can help a bit here. You see, the low velocity, old 45-70 craze, well........I kinda am to a degree responsible for that :wink:

A few years back I contacted Marlin with an idea, one they acted on, and have done so well with that they expanded it all the way down to the 44 mag rifle! What I asked for then was a SHORT, FAST, PORTABLE, BRUSH GUN, with tremedous knock down power.

That need, by me, made sense to them. I think it's fair to say that at least 50% of all the game taken is from close cover. That gave them a 50% market, it gave them Alaska since Guides like to throw backup guns behind seats of planes. It was an instant sucess and continues to be.

The Ultra Mags and WSM breed of new cartridges make sense. What's beyond Magnum? The other 50% of game is taken accross the opens. Belted Magnums have kind of worn out their welcome, they too are now "old" technology. The new short and squat is just that, NEW!

We have newer and better powders that get optimum ballistics from these fat cartridges. We have better designed game bullets now than we have ever had. Why not? The public is a sucker for something new, it's our nature as humans :lol:

It has tremendous appeal to a high percentage of the masses, especially the new gunners that read all the current gun rags and dream of death ray rifles that can wipe out critters miles away.

There is a market share that is somewhat immune from this rhubarb, the old geezers who can sort through it all and smile. Yes Sir, we've been killing em square with the 45-70, the 308, the 270, and the 30-06, why stop now :wink:

Those of us that know from experience that a properly constructed bullet ( a simple Remington Core Lokt) that is delivered on target to the vitals of a game animal is what puts it in the freezer, well, maybeso we aren't supposed to know that, or think that way, but we've paid our dues, and for the most part, we're happy campers.

Ah, but they quote trajectory and energy figures. Just do a stare and compare on the PUBLISHED ballistics charts. Horse manure I say! Out to 300 yards, where the AVERAGE man should NOT be shooting, what prey tell is "flatter" than a 270 with a 130 spitzer?

Sure, you can get a couple of hundred foot pounds more of "hit um" energy way out there, but at what expense? Barrel and throat errosion, increased cost in ammo, more difficult to find ammo, and an increase in recoil. Don't sound like a smokin deal to me :eek:

Right now, we need a surge in the economy, BAD. So I ain't gonna tell the boys not to buy the new supper zappers, you either. We'll keep it our secret and smile :wink:

Coug
 

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As far as impressions go with the 358 I can provide the following. I had a chance to fire both a 358 BLR with 250 grain loads and a 375 H&H M70
with starting 270 grain loads on the same day. Because the M70 was so heavy it seemed to have a slower but heavier recoil. The BLR's recoil was pretty fast and roughly comparably to the 375. I have never hunted with a 358 though.

Ed
 

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.358

Fellas,

Great information and good reading. I enjoy being enlightened by those on this board. Thanks again to those who make it possible.

I guess I would have to say my interest in the .358; purely armchair, stems from being enamoured with the .308 Winchester/7.62NATO, one of my favorite rounds for all (well, nearly all) creatures great and small. It would seem to me the 35 caliber round could clearly do a few things better than the 30, especially on larger quadrapeds. The trade-off, like Cougar and EDG says, is the increased recoil, and I can live without that easy enough.
 

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.358 Winchester

:wink: I have a fair bit of experience with the .358 Winchester, amongst others. I've used it on game ranging from deer on up to zebra. The .358 Winchester is one of the world's most overlooked and underrated cartridges. It's on a par with the old 9x57 Mauser. It's not just a short range affair either....contrary to what some may believe. While it excels at close range, it'll easily do the job out to 300 yards or so (more than 300 yards is really farther than the majority of us have any business shooting at unwounded game, eh?). I killed a zebra with it - 225 grain Barnes X- Bullets @ 2400 fps - right at 300 yards. Impossible to get closer due to circumstances. Only one shot required - broke the onside shoulder, destroyed the vitals, exited the offside ribcage. Shots at game have generally averaged 50 - 150 yards and most everything has required only one round. A couple animals required follow ups but that was due to poor bullet placement (shooter error :roll: ). To me, it seems to hit harder than my .30-06, although dead is dead. It's a snap to make cases from .308 Winchester brass. I have come to prefer the 225 grain bullets for general mixed-bag use, although the 250 grainers definitely have their place. I've had good results with Nosler Partitions, Barnes X-Bullets, and the South African Claw bonded-cores. Barnes X-Bullets have received mixed reviews, but they've worked for me. They penetrate well and almost always exit (which may not always be a good thing). Partitions are tough to beat as are the Claw bonded cores. For deer, regular 200-225 grain bullets work well, and meat destruction is minimal - one can pretty much eat right up to the hole. It's one of my favorite cartridges and an excellent, although largely overlooked, choice; especially, if one's hunts occasionally include the bigger stuff.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
WHAT!!??

They obviously have never owned and shot one!

Write them a letter!

Diligentia, vis, celeritas!
 

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.358 Winchester Improved

Advocate,

The .358 Improved would be interesting. Don't know if it would be worth the hassle and expense, though. There's plenty of shoulder for the regular .358 Winchester to headspace. I really haven't had to trim my cases much at all. Going with the improved might net you a 5% increase or so across the board. You'll probably have to buy a reamer. Think they're going for about $120 - $140 these days. Don't know if the reamer rental places or many gunsmiths will have one. Then, you'll have to get a set of improved dies - about $60 last time I checked - and you'll need to fireform the cases before going for top loads. Then, there's a chance the improved cases will not feed properly, depending upon the particular rifle. Might be worth the hassle though. Only you can decide. Go for it if you the cons don't bother you. Hope this helps.
 

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My Dad has a Model 99F in 358Win. This has been his favorite rifle over the years. He has also had the 99's in 243 and 308. My sister has the 308. Using the 99, she can out shoot her husband with his lever action Win. (mod 100 or 88?) in 308.

Once you learn the trajectory of the 358, (as you have to with any caliber), it can be a long range hitter. Using a spirepoint, the 358 has plenty of killing power well past the 350yd mark.

As far as long range shooting goes, I feel you shouldn't shoot any farther than you can consitantly put 5 shots in a pie plate. For some that is 50 yds and for some it is 500 yds.

Someday the 358 will be mine, but I would much rather have it sit in my Dad's guncase and have my Dad around, of course.

Hud
 

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Posted: Sun Jan 05, 2003 11:41 am Post subject:

Of course.
-----------------------

No, Really I would! :twisted: :) :-D

And speaking of the 358 Ackley improved, a couple other great wildcats for the 99 would be the 308/375 Ackley Im. or the 284/411.

Hud
 

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358Win thats just my game

180gr Barnes XFB 2802fps-3137fpe
200gr Hornady Interlok 2700fps-3236fpe
225gr Speer Grand Slam 2550fps-3248fpe
250gr Barnes XFB 2425fps-3255fpe
300gr Barnes 2250fps-3335fpe
I have 8 358win in ,Savage M99R,Win M70FW,Browning BLR,Win M88,Shilen DGA Sporter,Ultra Light Arms M20,Savage M99A,Ruger M77RS.The 358Win is the cream of the crop.Bad to the bone,and very underated.Don't be fooled it will do everything the 35 Whelen and 350Rem Mag will do,and do it with style and in a lever.
 

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Eight (8) 358's? Is that all?

You must be one of those guys who has problems with committment. Just can't make up your mind to take the plunge.

Seriously, what types of hunting do you use your .358(s) for? What are your favorite loads? How did you get interested in this cartridge? What' was your longest shot with one? Of all of your .358's, which is your favorite?
 

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358Win

Advocate said:
Eight (8) 358's? Is that all?

You must be one of those guys who has problems with committment. Just can't make up your mind to take the plunge.

Seriously, what types of hunting do you use your .358(s) for? What are your favorite loads? How did you get interested in this cartridge? What' was your longest shot with one? Of all of your .358's, which is your favorite?
I've used it on everything from mouflen to moose and everything in between.I started collecting the 358Win about 10 years ago.It started with a Savage M99F(which I have since sold).Than I collected the other levers in 358Win,Win M88 and Browning BLR and BLR-81.Than it just went on from there.I 've had probably about 20 or so in my life.But have sold a lot and traded some.The Win M88 is my favorite.But the most accurate one I had,I sold .It was Schultz & Larson M54 with 27 1/2 in barrel.Deadly accurate to 500yds+.I'm weeding them out and one day will just have the lever actions,as i am a lever man.
 

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I have one of the .358 Ruger 77's with the factory 18 1/2" tubes and open sights. I recently purchased one of the NECG peep sights and one of their ivory bead front sights. What a nice setup! Although I've yet to harvest anything with it (you have to go hunting to take game) it looks good in my locker. I wish Davidson's would offer the 77 Mark II International in .358. Although it has a Win style safety I'd probably still buy one.
 

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Ruger M77RS

I had 3 new in the box 358Wins in Ruger M77RS.2 with sights and one without.I sold two of them,keep one of the ones with sights.I'm not a big fan of bolt actions,and really don't like the stubby barrel of the Ruger.My Savage M99RS and A and my Win M88 usally have 150-200fps more in velocity and are more accurate than the Ruger and have fast follow up shots if needed.But the Ruger will make a neat brush gun.Though it will never see the duty time of the Savages or Winchester.It may take the place of my Browning BLR in 358 on some hunts.Enforcer
 

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The .358 and the .356 are are fine cartridges the .358 has the advantage over the .356 because it can hold about 5gr.s more powder and can use pointed bullets,but a .358win. properly loaded is a very potent cartridge .
I've been looking for one in a Model 88 Win. for some time now , the ones I've found have been quite pricey, I've got a .356win. in a 94 win., nice gun.
I agree with Rocky bout the .358win. bening a overlooked cartridge : maybe the most overlooked!
Hopefully Ruger will put the .358win. in one of there new model 77 compacts.
I would like to see Gibbs put it in a No. 4 or a No.1 mk. 3 Endfeilds.
 

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I've been planning on having a custom gun built on a cz24. action . The caliber is what I can't decide on: a .338-06 or a .35 Whelen or a .375 -06 A.I. or a .358win. I hate to put a short action cartridge in a long action or .358win. would be top of my list.
 

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Buckeye,
If you are not opposed to a belted case you may consider the .350 Rem Mag. In a standard length action the bullets could be seated out of the powder space and performance could be improved. I just recieved my Encore Barrel in this caliber and haven't started loading for it yet but I've been told that I should be able, depending on seating depth, to approach .358 Norma ballistics. You would also be able to pick up factory ammo and not have to form brass. I ordered 100 pcs of new brass from MidSouth for about $32.00. I see now that Natchez has the brass for $14.63/50. Sean
 

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Sean : Thanks for the input but I don't see any differance in the 350.mag. and the 35 Whelen in performance. I"d would go toward the Whelen . (Unlimited cases)
 

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Buckeye,
I understand your feelings. When I ordered my .350 I debated for quite a while between it and the Whelen. I even have a set of Whelen dies. But then I heard Rem was going to bring back the .350 so I opted for it. The other reason was just to be different. Good Luck with your project and if you do a Whelen maybe we could work a deal on my dies. They are unused RCBS dies and I would let them go real reasonable. Sean
 
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