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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
New guy here, stumbled across this forum while researching my new project. 2 years ago I sent my 20 ga handi (my 1st shotgun) in for a .357, 28 ga barrel, and new youth wood with recoil pad to build my daughter a rifle combo once she was ready (she's small). The project sat until this hunting season when she helped me take a Caribou, now she wants her own so I'm interested again. So I'm shorten it to 17" and since Handi had no iron sight options for me I'm going to have a ramp installed on the barrel, use a Williams rear sight and load some 180 xtp's for next year.

Max coal using 158 gr lead TC bullets is 1.930 so I thought the 360 would be fine. Got 101 pieces of brass in and sized brass (.374) chambers fine, unsized (.376) gets stiff about .050 out of the hole. It will chamber and extract with only light force on extraction (doing by hand, weight of the barrel does it unnoticeably). I loaded a dummy 158 TC to 1.86 with a slight crimp to close the bell, brass diameter is .378 at the bullet. This one goes in until .040 out of the hole (assume the crimp is .010), chambers and extracts as mentioned above with a little more extraction force needed.

So I guess the forcing cone on mine is a mile long. Is it safe to load them like this or do I need to rent the maxi reamer and just kiss it until it goes in w/o any assistance? I won't be chasing uber max due to recoil, probably shoot for 2000ish fps with h110. I'm looking for a 150 yard max Caribou killer with a no real holdover/under, basically point and shoot, if it's at 150, hold a little high on the animal.

Thanks
 

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I tried the 360 and it just touched the rifling leade. When crimped lightly they chamber and drop out fine. I shoot with a COAL of 1.820 on mine and am using 140 gr Rem over 19gr of H110. I have no pressure signs or extraction problems at all. If you can chamber one with just finger pressure and extract the case with your fingers and not have to forcefully open the barrel you should be ok.
I would shorten your OAL until to make sure the bullet is not into the rifling, use a light crimp and see if the cartridges do not chamber easily. Shoot some starting at about max levels for a standard 357 mag load and watch for pressure signs and go from there.
 

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keep in mind, hornady don't recommend your xtp at over 1800fps.
and i'm a believer in that statement....I've seen fragmentation on thin skin, no bone impact.
it isn't what a meat processor wants to see.
for all our maximums we use speer hot-cor 180gr hcfn @2170fps which produces a fine 2X mushroom...... 8)
 

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I think you fellas may be mistaking chamber length(the straight section where the brass actually fits, not the no man's land beyond!) which is much shorter than distance to the lands in the 357 Mag, many 357 Mag chambers will chamber 360 DW brass, but many won't without shortening it, I had to shorten it .010" just to chamber and that was without a bullet seated, the distance to the lands is a heck of a lot farther. What you're describing/think you're experiencing isn't the bullet into the lands, but is actually the end of the brass being pinched by the unreamed section of the chamber, there is no SAAMI 357 Mag rifle spec, just the revolver, so the transition between chamber and lands leaves a lot to be desired.

http://saami.org/PubResources/CC_Drawings/Pistol/357 Magnum.pdf

http://saami.org/PubResources/CC_Drawings/C and C Dwgs - TOC - Rifle.pdf

FWIW loads for my last Maxi'd barrel had a COL of 2.3" to the lands using the Speer 180gr FN, and the PTG Maxi reamer doesn't touch much of the lands, just enough to put a 6º taper in them, the throat on SAAMI 357 Mag barrels is really long as can be seen in the chamber cast.

Tim

http://www.go2gbo.com/forums/hr-centerfire-rifles/357-handi-rifle-throat-depth/30/#lastPost
 

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Exactly as Quick said. With a tiny bit of flare to seat the bullet easy my loads were a tight fit also, once I put a light crimp on the cartridge they drop into and out of my chamber without being touched. My chamber must be very close to the exact length needed for the 360. Remember that the 357 case is 1.290 in length , the 360 is 1.410, a difference of 120 thousandths. The listed 360 loads with the same bullet weight as the 357 mag, max loads are about 4 grains higher.
I would try loading a bullet with a light crimp and see what that does. If it fixes it -fine. If it does not, start trimming the case .010 at a time and see how much you would need to trim to get a "loose" fit.
Let us know what you find out.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
twoshooter, Agreed on the length, this was just a test.
gendoc, Copy on the xtp, terminal velocity max is 1800.
gendoc, are you talking 35 rem bullets?

On the loads the unsized rounds go in with light finger pressure, the loaded one stops at .0365 with moderate pressure but seat when the breach is closed. But if I were to trim the brass .050 I'd only be .070 (1.36) over a mag, is it worth trimming them at that rate vs getting on the reamer list? It would help seating the bullet out though.
 

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Shooting cast bullets shouldn't be a problem with the tight chamber neck, but I wouldn't recommend shooting jacketed bullets with it that way, that's why most chambers allow ~.002" larger diameter than the loaded bullet neck diameter, otherwise there's a pressure spike when the bullet tries to leave the brass due to the pinched end of the brass, on an SB1 shotgun frame that could lead to bigger problems, the large firing pin is notorious for causing cratered or pierced primers for one thing. I would recommend either trimming the DW brass so the loaded round chambers fully, or just spend $16 and make it a Maxi, the 6º leade the reamer cuts in the rifling is well worth the minimal cost even for shooting 38 Spl or Mag rounds.

Tim
 

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Tim is right, the GBO reamer is tried and true and has several people singing it's praises. It has proven to give excellent results.

The other option as I see it, is to just use 357 brass with your bullets seated out as far as you can go. You can safely do that in the mean time until you get the reamer without worrying and without trimming brass.

BW

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
 

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Technically you don't have a tight neck... You have too long a case because it's the wring caliber....


Now we know that many use the DW in. H&R chamber with no problems... But one needs to know the how's and whys as it's NOT always ok.


As Timmy showed us the chamber cast is the best I know to see what you have in your exact chamber. Knowing this you can tell if a DW length case will be safe. Or if you need to trim a bit or even in a maxi case trimmed a bit would work.


The tightness in the neck probable means your into the leade. Not good pressure wise. Not safe is more accurate could be dangerous under some conditions. Trim your brass to keep this from happening.


If this worrys you, and it SHOULD if you don't know these things and understand what's going on. I see two choices... Shoot only what the barrel is stamped for ammunition. Or re chamber with a correct RIFLE MAXIMUM reamer.


I suggest the later as improvements in overall accuracy in all calibers is usually the result


Good luck,
CW
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Reamer will be a good thing, mine must have been one of the last barrels done before they threw the reamer away. I grabbed a piece of fired brass from one of my rugers and it measures .377 to .378 and it gets real tight 3/4 of the way in the handi.
 

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It could well have been. I just checked mine, my fired case (357mag) miked .380 and dropped completely into the chamber with a thunk! Sounds like the reamer is the way to go for you. My barrel came through the accessory program about '09 or '10.
I just did some more readings. A new unsized case is 1.409 long with the 360. The unsized case mouth is .378-- in can be seated with mild thumb pressure. A loaded round after sizing and with bullet seated and crimped lightly (tapered crimp) is .376-- that drops in and out of mine with zero interference. Note that the OAL on my cartridge with a 357Mag case is 1.605, the OAL with the same bullet in the 360 is 1.820.The bullet dia below the cannelure is 357, the bullet above the cannelure is .350. In my instance the bullets are taper crimped and NOT in the cannelure but about .080-.090 below it-- where the bullet is the full 357 dia, resulting in the .376 dia at the casemouth.
 

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First off I agree with cwlongshot. When in doubt, chamber cast.

Second I did not even consider moving longer until I had done a chamber cast and saw that I had a lot of room to play with. Double measured both the cast and the chamber itself.

Even then a big square nosed bullet tight to the bore might have got me in trouble. But I had a nice long round nose bullet that was borderline big enough.

As they say the devil is in the details. If in doubt, ream and be done with it.

For me, just shooting paper, the .360DW brass is ideal. It lets me set that bullet right up to the edge of the rifling.
That is the good news. Change bullets, you start the process all over again, which is the bad news.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
No waiting list for the reamer wahoo, shipping Monday!!!! Brownell's actually had the 180 xtp's in stock, no luck on the 358 hot cores or ssp's though. I'll keep an eye out for max brass and .358 bullets.

For now I'll just ream to max and use the 360 brass with the 180 xtp's and work up a load staying under 1800 muzzle velocity. I hate making up loads without real book data but speer #11 shows their 180 gr in a magnum rifle at 1689fps using h110. Crimping at the rear groove and using the 360 brass I should be able to safely pass that data but that's where I'll start, 15 grains is a lot of fricking h110 lol. I'll try my standby plinkers in it too, 4.5gr HP38 and a 158 gr LTC. HP38 is not the best rifle powder but a very universal plinking powder for lead in my 38/357/44/45, and it's clean burning. Wait, I just remembered this is my daughters gun lol.
 

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I get 1840 fps with 17.5 gr of H110 CCI 550 primers using the 180 grain XTP seated to 1.700 COL in Starline DW brass. My rifle has not been reamed. It will chamber 1.705 but I reduced COL to 1.700 to give a little clearance. Seating to this depth puts the bullet at the edge of the crimp groove nearest the point. I give it a heavy crimp with a Lee Factory Crimp die and have been getting sub 1" 3 shot 100 yd groups with this combination. No sign of any high pressure issues. Of course your rifle may be completely different. The DW brass goes in mine with no problem at all which doesn't sound like the situation with yours.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
cwlongshot, never used much alliant except rl19/22 in magnums.

Indiana Mike, that's about perfect. How's the recoil? I'm building the 17" handi and a rem 700 mountain 270 20" for my kid now that she's interested, she's tiny at 12, 4'6"/90 pounds soaking wet and I'm concerned about recoil. The 357 will have the load you mentioned with peep sights, the 270 has a muzzle break and will use 110 gr 6.8 spc accubonds in a reduced h4895 load at around 2400 fps with a 2-7x33 turkey scope. Whichever rifle she can control and accurately shoot is the one we will take and keep the shots under 150 yards. I don't want to scare her off from hunting with recoil, I started with a 7 mm mag and hated that thing but now I use a 338 wm and 457 ww mag while carrying a 44 mag with 320 gr hard cast lol, times have changed but the bears are BIG up here and I want one...
 

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also check out Handloads.Com and look for the Dan Wesson Data. It shows 180 gr bullets over 18.5 gr of H110 at 1500fps--- from a 10" revolver. 32Kpsi and they loaded 1.760 OAL for the revolver. I load mine to 1.820 OAL, and if you ream that will be a moot point. I stopped at 19gr of H110 because with the bullets I have- the 140gr Rems- i am getting 1 hole groups at 50 yds and cant get better than that.
 
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