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Discussion Starter #1
Well, the 265gr. bullets I ordered from beartooth are in and I have a bottle of 2400 sitting on my bench.

They are sized .432 to match the diameter of my "big bored" 44 mag barrel.

Anyone got any loads in this combination they want to share? I checked Alliant's website and they list a MAX load of 17gr. of 2400 with a 265gr. JFP.

I am thinking of starting at about 16gr. and working up to 17gr. using the ladder method.

Any other suggestions? I know H110 is a good powder too, but I use 2400 for several other loads and want to try and stick with it.

Thanks,
Jerry
 

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44 loads for "big bored" NEF barr

if you are shooting their gas-checked bullet which seems to be a 'weight-forward' kind of design, I'd go with a ball/spherical powder whether it be Winchester's 296, Hodgdon's H-110, or bulk WC-820. I'd use Win' WLP or CCi large pistol magnum primers. I'd work up a load with the idea that a weight-forward design will need (and take) more powder to develop reliable ignition.

Why not contact Beartooth to ask for their recommendations since they know best about the design parameters of their product -- I'd guess.

SS'
 

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44 loads for "big bored" NEF barr

MtJerry, sounds like lawyerized data to me. That's lighter than my bottom load for 255 KT GC, a LOT lighter. It's also too much for a plain base bullet. Part of that is because it is jacketed bullet data and those build more pressure.

You did not say which, but here is great data for PB bullets. http://www.gmdr.com/lever/lowveldata.htm

SafetySheriff, perhaps you could share your experience with us. What .44 Mag rifles have you loaded cast bullets for, what bullet diameters did they take, what weights and charges have you tried, and what were your results?
 

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44 loads for "big bored" NEF barr

The Lyman 47th Edition shows a starting load of 17.5 grains and a max of 20.4 grains with a 275 grain lead bullet (with gas check mold#429640) Velocities are 1468 and 1656 respectively. (rifle data)

For a double check, Speer #13 maxes out at 17.5 grains of 2400 with their 270 Gold Dot, they show a velocity of 1367, thats pretty anemic considering that using 21 grains of H110 will give you 1573 acording to their data and I was getting 1575 from my Handi with that same bullet.

18 grians of H110 was giving me 1430 fps with Magnus Bullet Co. 300 grainer (Lyman 48th Edition manual). While I understand the desire to use the same powder in different cases, such a practice may not give you the best performance in every case.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
44 loads for "big bored" NEF barr

Thanks for the replies!

I loaded a few up last night starting at 16gr and went up to 17gr. I will give them a try later today at the range if I can get away from work in time.

Safetysheriff,

I tried to call Beartooth, but got no answer on the day I called. As for a "weight-forward" design, I have some doubts about that. These bullets are rather short for a 265gr bullet. The wide meplat and bullet weight make for a pretty compact package. I also got some 250gr. keith bullets that are about 1/4 inch taller than these :shock:

Anyway, I'll let ya know how they work out.

JPH45,

With the info you have given me, I'm thinkin' these will be pretty mild loads. If they do not gorup well, I'll keep easing up the load and watch for pressure signs.

Thanks again ...
 

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44 loads for "big bored" NEF barr

Back from the range ...

16.8gr showed me a 1" group at 50 yards using the iron sights. I suppose that will do nicely. 8)

I may go ahead and work up a few more at 1/2 gr. increments up to 19gr. The 17gr. loads showed NO signs of pressure or leading.
 

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44 loads for "big bored" NEF barr

Leftoverdj said:
SafetySheriff, perhaps you could share your experience with us. What .44 Mag rifles have you loaded cast bullets for, what bullet diameters did they take, what weights and charges have you tried, and what were your results?
leftovers'

give it a rest.......if you know how. we're not able to play the game we used to play on the NEF site -- and there's a good reason for that. if you can handle it. i doubt you'll ever be boss over me.

ss'
 

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44 loads for "big bored" NEF barr

Come on SS, share some info with us that pertains to shooting cast bullets in 44 mag rifles..... Inquiring minds need to know!!! :)

Tim
 

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44 loads for "big bored" NEF barr

MtJerry said:
Thanks for the replies!


Safetysheriff,

As for a "weight-forward" design, I have some doubts about that. These bullets are rather short for a 265gr bullet. The wide meplat and bullet weight make for a pretty compact package. I also got some 250gr. keith bullets that are about 1/4 inch taller than these :shock:

.
MtJerry,

It's because of how wide the meplat, and how short the part of the projectile that is seated inside the case, that it makes me think of the weight-forward design. The point being, that it will need loads somewhat tailored toward that kind of a projectile. The ball/spherical propellants that I mentioned before may not be very flexible with their charge weights, but Accurate Arms #9 can be loaded down more than Winchester or Hodgdon's.

For my part, I'd increase the performance in the .44 mag' by using a ball powder anyway. John Linebaugh's website used to tell how much velocity could be increased, while keeping pressures in acceptable ranges, with W-296 and H-110. They are better than Alliant's 2400 when it comes to handling higher pressures and velocities, according to Linebaugh. They do not wear out revolvers because of their pressure curves, and with a Handi' the wear and tear should be even less.

Good luck

SS'
 

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44 loads for "big bored" NEF barr

quickdtoo said:
Come on SS, share some info with us that pertains to shooting cast bullets in 44 mag rifles..... Inquiring minds need to know!!! :)

Tim
here's a few quick tips, for those who want them:

if you shoot hollow-points, you'll probably want to use a softer lead alloy so the hollow point will open up better.......which will mean that a gas-check will be needed to get the bullet to grip the rifling better. this is especially true in a micro-groove rifle. i've seen it as a waste of time in my Marlin to use hardcast bullets that weren't gascheck'd. (that's part of the reason my Marlin has been out on loan for a couple years now.... i gave the landowner some jacketed flat points and they have done fine out of the Marlin on deer.)

shooting a larger diameter hardcast bullet is a poor, poor substitute for using a gascheck in a micro-grooved Handi' or Marlin. the lead alloy is just not hard enough to grip the rifling in many/most instances -- to make a tack-driver out of the rifle.

the .44 mag' cartridge is capable of target-grade accuracy, out of a Handi' or a Marlin, if loaded properly with a bullet that the rifle likes.

if you shoot hardcast the lesser friction of the projectile can make it harder to get consistent ignition in the .44 mag'. a consistent case length, with a firm crimp, will help in most instances, IF the projectile itself is also heavy enough to assist with resistance to movement when the primer fires. it can be Very difficult with the slower spherical powders to get reliable ignition with lighter cast bullets in a .44 mag' . some of our co-conspirators have tried the lighter bullets, and they are problematic. why bother?

a micro-grooved rifle, shooting hardcast, plain-based bullets, is of little or no advantage over a revolver, in my experience. if your eyesight will allow it, a good open-sighted revolver will prove more enjoyable than a micro-grooved rifle that the bullets 'strip' from.

ss'

Tim,

you took leftover's bait; i did not. now you've gotten a little of what i've seen/know.

want to see a .44 mag' perform? try garrett's type of projectiles and loading and use them out of a 7 1/2" Ruger revolver and you'll have plenty of power in a very 'Handi' package! if you don't like the expense, just get some of National Bullets 265 gr' rnfp hardcast and shoot those out of a Ruger. if your eyes are good you will not need a scope, and they will penetrate! it's easier than carrying the Handi's that we all love, and it's a further handicap that makes the hunt even more interesting.
 

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44 loads for "big bored" NEF barr

SafetySheriff,

Thanks for the info! Interesting reading and I will give it some consideration.

I should have pointed out that these 265gr's I got from Beartooth are Gas Chcked bullets. They are sized .432 because that is the bore diameter of my Handi. There are some other posts here that indicate that this fairly common occurance for Handi's in the 44mag.

I have found that they are VERY accurate out of my Handi at low velocities, and I am working on bringing the velocity up and keeping the accuracy at the same time. I'm not done with that part yet.

I have also tried them out of my 7 1/2 Ruger SBH and they are just as accurate. We'll see if the accuracy stays there as I work the load up. I agree about the Ruger being a good carry gun for hunting. I spend a LOT of time in the mountains here in Montana and when I am there, the 44 Ruger goes with me. I bought the NEF 44 to ride on my ATV. It's light, compact, and fits nicely on the ATV.

If I find a load that shoots well out of my Handi and my Ruger, I will be in heaven! SO far, the 265gr'er does the job. You might think the .432 dia. is a bit big for the ruger, but I slugged the cylinder of the Ruger and it was .431 so I think I'm ok.

Thanks again for the replies!
 

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44 loads for "big bored" NEF barr

but I slugged the cylinder of the Ruger and it was .431 so I think I'm ok.
I've slugged two of those guns and they were .4315. Ordered a mold from lbt in .4325 at 320 grains. What a hammer on both ends out of the SBH :shock: I could get it to a bit over 1300 fps out of the 7.5 inch barrel.

I would buy a handi .44 just to play with those 320's but probably not going to work in their 1:38 twist :( I sent some to somebody here on the list and they reported keyholes with their handi .44.
 

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44 loads for "big bored" NEF barr

Longcruise,

I have tried the 300gr. Hornady XTP's and had pretty fair results in my Handi. I only bought them because they were the largest sized jacketed bullets I could find (.430).

Send me a few and I'll give them a try :grin:
 

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44 loads for "big bored" NEF barr

What is the heaviest bullet that the handi would stablize?
 

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44 loads for "big bored" NEF barr

This is from Chuck Hawks site: http://www.chuckhawks.com/rifle_barrel.htm

The usual twist rates for some of the more popular rifle calibers are given below. (For a more comprehensive list, see "Common Rifle Barrel Twist Rates" on the Rifle Information Page.)

.22 Short = 1 in 24"
.22 Long Rifle = 1 in 16"
.223 Remington = 1 in 12"
.22-250 Remington = 1 in 14"
.243 Winchester = 1 in 10"
6mm Remington = 1 in 9"
.25-06 Remington = 1 in 10"
.257 Wby. Mag. = 1 in 10"
6.5x55 Swedish Mauser = 1 in 7.5"
.260 Remington = 1 in 9"
.270 Winchester = 1 in 10"
.270 WSM = 1 in 10"
7mm-08 Remington = 1 in 9.25"
7mm Rem. SAUM = 1 in 9.25"
7mm Rem. Mag. = 1 in 9.25"
.30 Carbine = 1 in 16"
.30-30 Winchester = 1 in 12"
.308 Winchester = 1 in 12"
.30-06 Springfield = 1 in 10"
.300 WSM = 1 in 10"
.300 Win. Mag. = 1 in 10"
.300 Wby. Mag. = 1 in 10"
.303 British = 1 in 10"
.32 Win. Spec. = 1 in 16"
.338-57 O'Connor = 1 in 10"
.338 Win. Mag. = 1 in 10"
.35 Remington = 1 in 16"
.350 Rem. Mag. = 1 in 16"
.375 H&H Mag. = 1 in 12"
.416 Rem. Mag. = 1 in 14"
.444 Marlin = 1 in 38"
.45-70 Govt. (Marlin and Ruger rifles) = 1 in 20"
.450 Marlin = 1 in 20"
.458 Win. Mag. = 1 in 14"

And this is from the NEF Sticky here at GB's:

posted December 28, 2003 07:09 AM

.17 HMR 1 in 9"
.22 LR 1 in 16"
.22 WMRF 1 in 16"
.22 Hornet 1 n 12"
.223 1 in 12"
.25/06 1 in 10"
.243 1 in 10"
.270 1 in 10"
.280 1 in 10"
.308 1 in 10"
357 Mag 1 in 18 3/4"
7x57 1 in 10"
7x64 1 in 10"
30/30 1 in 10"
30/06 1 in 10"
38/55 1 in 18"
44 Mag 1 in 38"
45/70 1 in 20"
45 Colt/410 1 in 16"
20 ga. 1 in 28"
12 ga. 1 in 35"


I see that NEF is again not quite on speck with the rest of the gun world. :?
 

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44 loads for "big bored" NEF barr

Mt. J'

Ideally, most revolver buffs would look for a chamber throat to be approx. .001 larger than the bullet diameter.....

All that is fine and well, but if your revolver works well without developing excessive pressures then you should have an even more accurate piece, I would think. It all depends upon a couple of variables actually.

You may want to try either IMR or Hodgdon's 4227 for propellants, with a Win' large pistol primer, to see good accuracy with reasonably good velocities. The velocities won't equal the ball/spherical powders like H-110 or Win 296, but the accuracy should -- on the average -- be equal or better.

I hope you 'drill ' a big one and get to tell us all about it.

Long'C,

I'd guess that some of the gun cranks on this site might doubt your velocity out of that Super BlackHawk. I don't! I've seen J.D. Jones state that his 320 gr' hardcast bullet in .44 mag' would get a little less than 1400 fps' out of a 7 1/2" revolver -- so I believe you. { "Hunting for Handgunners" is the book by Jones and Larry Kelly.}

Makes one think about how much you really need to carry a .45-70 and so on, if the .44 mag' -- properly loaded in a proper Ruger -- can deliver so much in such a small package.

Take care,

ss'

p.s. FWIW: the Belt Mountain Base Pin I put on my 5 1/2" Super BlackHawk has allowed that piece to do some amazing work off a bench at a 100 yard range we have here in N/E Ohio. I do recommend them if your original base pin is as loose as mine was.
 

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44 loads for "big bored" NEF barr

I must be loosing my mind ... I could have sworn the Chuck Hawks site listed the 44mag twist as 1:20 ?!?!?!?!

Anyway, I don't know the math, but 1:20 sounds better than 1:38 for heavier bullets.
 

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44 loads for "big bored" NEF barr

Probably did. The problem with the 44 Mags twist rate is whose barrel, and when was it made. It is possible that when Ruger brought out their original 44 auto loader, they used the same twist as was used in past in 44-40 rifles; 1 in 38. When Marlin introduced the 444 they used the 1 in 38 twist in that as well. Twist works good woth bullets up to 270-280 grains, which was fine for 250 grain bullets. Try to get heavier....300 +......and one needs something faster. But most likely it was the 1 in 20 twist in revolvers that set the tone of 1 in 20 rifle barrels of later manufactuer. As the use of heavier bullets became the norm, makers had to increase the twist of their barrels as well.

As cast bullet shooting goes the rule of thumb is to use the slowest twist that will stabilize the bullet. I believe the thought is to minimize the torque and rotational forces the bullet goes through in an effort to maximize the accuracy potential of a bullet. At least so the thinking goes.

I've done enough shooting with my 44 that I'm quite satisfied that there is no disadvantage to the 1 in 38 twist. I believe a close study of the 44's ballistic capabilities will bear out that a 270 grian bullet at 1575 fps offers the best balance of velocity, energy and trajectory the case is capable of.
 

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44 loads for "big bored" NEF barr

Send me a few and I'll give them a try
Shoot me a PM with address, etc. Be happy to ship you a few. I have a coffee can full and have sold the .44 mag pistol.

What is the heaviest bullet that the handi would stablize?
I think it would be a matter of bullet fit, etc. I can stablilze a Lee .430 255 gr wadcuuter out of a 1:48 barrel but that's about the extreme possible with the 1:48 (yes, 1:48 not 1:38 :grin: )

If a bullet leaves the muzzle doing the watusi it may destabilize, whereas the same bullet with a good fit might settle down and shoot well.

I'd guess that some of the gun cranks on this site might doubt your velocity out of that Super BlackHawk. I don't! I've seen J.D. Jones state that his 320 gr' hardcast bullet in .44 mag' would get a little less than 1400 fps' out of a 7 1/2"
I'd not doubt that for a second. Coulda got there myself but once I was just over 1300 it didn't make any sense to go further and in fact I backed it off to about 1275 for everyday use. Those loads are a handfull in a SA revolver :shock:

Makes one think about how much you really need to carry a .45-70 and so on, if the .44 mag' -- properly loaded in a proper Ruger -- can deliver so much in such a small package
If NEF would just get their twist right, I'd own a .44 barrel and probably whack it off to just over 16 inches for a close combat brush gun. :) Not that I'd ever need it, but then again I don't "need" any of my guns. :grin:
 

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44 loads for "big bored" NEF barr

Longcruise - you got mail!!! Thanks!

JPH45,

These 265gr's actually weigh out at around 270gr. due to the larger size. I am aiming for that magic 1575 mark you have laid out. I'll let ya know how I do.

I cannot express how pleased I am with the size of the meplat on this round. if I can get it to that magic 1575 velocity, it should do extemely well come hunting season :grin:
 
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