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Discussion Starter #1
I'm really getting the bug to get a MARLIN .444 Marlin lever action and am really looking over the different models.

So there are old ones, new ones, long ones, short ones, ported, unported, blued, possibly stainless, Ballard rifling, MicroGroove rifling, so many choices...

Do you own one? If so, what do you have? Do you see any glaring pro's or con's of some of the features of yours?

Thanks for any info. I like to see 'lots' of opinions! :)
 

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444P

:D Got a Marlin 444P Outfitter bout 2 years old. Been tryin to shoot it to death lately. This thing's top of the line as far as I'm concerned. Only thing that would make it better would be the same piece in stainless. Try one you'll like it! :-D
 

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Marlin .444

Got an old .444. Microgroove rifling, but contrary to popular opinion, it shoots pretty dang good with lead bullets IF they're sized big enough (.432-.433). With the Lyman 429649 (345gr) and 429650 (325gr), the recoil makes me wonder why I'm shooting it. According to theory, the 38" twist won't handle long, heavy bullets. I haven't done any long range testing yet but at 50 yards they work fine. Nevertheless, I wish Marlin would change the twist to 1 in 18". Couldn't hurt, might help.[/color]
 

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I have a Marlin Guide Gun in 45/70 and absolutely love it! I've been thinking about getting the .444 Marlin Outfitter to go with it, but I haven't been able to justify the purchase to my wife :)

I think you'd like the .444 Marlin Outfitter but you may prefer a longer barrel model depending on your intended use. Me I'm happy with the shorter barreled versions like in the Guide Gun and Outfitter models.
 

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Yep, they're gas checked. Biggest problem getting groups is the ferocious recoil. The Beartooth Bullets are better, no doubt, but I can't stand their prices.
 

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I've put over 1000 rds. through my marlin .444p. Its still going strong. It now wears a leupold 3x10x50 for woods hunting. I use a LEE 310 gr.cast gaschecked bullet pushed by 40 grs. of H4198. Cronos at 1904 fps avg.. STAY AWAY from the winchester 444's. They are junk and wlii shoot thenmselves apart.(I know, I had 2). I love my marlin!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

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OH NOBLE GUEST:
Check your marlin history. The .444 came first! The 45/70 was a spin off that came later.
Both are great cartridges and both will do the job and both are :roll: equal with 300 gr. bullets.
But who cares, Buy the one you like and be happy. :roll: :roll:
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Hey Guest...You're barking up the wrong tree here!

Check this out for any bullet weight you want up to 405 Grains in .4295"! :eek:

http://www.beartoothbullets.com/bulletselect/index.htm

I reload and have found the .444 will do everything I need it to do and then some for shooting/hunting on this continent. It will perform just as well on all of NA's game as the .45/70 and do it with the SAME diameter bullet as I use in my .44's!! :shock:

As a reloader, I find it handy to keep things simple, fewer powders, fewer primers, fewer bullet diameters. As a bullet CASTER, I can use the same molds for multiple guns.

So there's NOTHING that can be said about the .45's to sway me away from the .444! 8)
 

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Yo Guest,

Thanks for showing your arrogant ignorance. Bullet weight limit aint 300 grains in a .444. Try 405 grains, that I know of. Hey guy, .444 aint an imposter of any other cartridge, it is what it is, a proprietary cartridge with enough energy and kills to stand on its own merit. If you are a 45-70 guy then great! More power to ya. But really, just how heavy a bullet do you need to kill North American game animals? Take your worn out old mine is bigger and better song and sing it somewhere else.
markc :wink:
 

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444s

Hay markc: thanks, you saved me the trouble of responding to the Guest. He is wrong on a number of points, as you so correctly mentioned. He is also off base a bit on comparing a 458 bore with a 43 bore.

Both the 444 and 45-70 shoot 300 grain bullets. Both can be loaded all the way to 405 grains and he should have known this if he had looked at any of the previous posts. Interesting though is that the 45-70s 300 grainer isn't recommended for large, heavy dangerous animals but the 444's 300 grainer has taken the African big five, from a Contender.

While the 444 will probably never see a 500 grain or heavier bullet, as a proprietary cartridge of its own merit it doesn't need one. You can move a 405 grainer from a 444 at almost 2000'/sec. I wouldn't want to be on either the recoil or receiving end of that load. Cor-Bon loads up to 300 grains in the 444 and their factory rep complains that the load is 'absolutely vicious' to shoot. Naw! It's no pussycat but it is not all that excessive, and if you are carrying that caliber for is large dangerous game that is what you would want.

My only concern about the 444 is the comments a couple of fellas made about them coming apart. I would want to hear more on that.

Thanks again mark. This be Mikey. :)
 

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Hey Mikey

U R welcome. I sure don't want to be rude to anyone on GB's boards, but it is so tiresome to hera the same old song about how only a 45-70 can kill big game animals. Oh well, to each his own. I figuer if the time comes that I need more gun than the .444, I will do some research and make a purchase, and I doubt that it will be a 45-70.

I think I will stick with the 240 or 265 gr bullets unless I go after Bison or dangerous critters, then 300 gr should be all I need. I would love to do some reading on the .444 taking the African 5. Where can I find something in print on that? Thanks
markc :)
 

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444s

Hay markc - you're a good guy, thanks. The info I got on the 444 and the African Big Five came from a fella named Jerry at Cor-Bon. He said they had conducted a bunch of research on their loads for the 444 and tried them in the field - apparently the African Veld. He really talked up the 256 grainer and complained about the recoil of the 300 grainers, but when you check your Hornaday or Speer reloading manuals you can get the same velocities from handloads with those bullets in a couple of different powders. Also, Beartooth Bullets has a great bunch of write-ups on the 444 and the development and use of the loads they have tested. It makes for interesting reading, especially with the 325, 350 and 405 grain loads. They are also in the process of developing slow moving loads for that caliber.

I also read an article that didn't speak to well of the 444 with 265s on American Bison - said you had to hit them a couple of times to bring them down. Said the 45-70 with the 400s wasn't any better. Hmmmm, that's interesting. I wonder if he has any experiences with the 444 and 300 grainers - you wouldn't think that 35 extra grains of bullet weight would not matter that much but in a 43 bore it just might. After all, look what the 300 grain bullet does for the 44 magnum. Although another author once said that increasing the velocity of heavy bullets (like 300 grains) in the 44 magnum and 444 had little terminal effect because of the over penetration. Man, go figure. I guess it's slow and heavy, huh? This is Mikey.
 

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Re: 444s

Mikey said:
I also read an article that didn't speak to well of the 444 with 265s on American Bison - said you had to hit them a couple of times to bring them down. Said the 45-70 with the 400s wasn't any better. Hmmmm, that's interesting
I have seen stuff in print that stated a man could kill a buffalo as far away as he could see one with a 45-70 way back when. I take that with a grain of salt, a BIG grain :wink:

Admitedly, I can't see that well anymore, but still, I'd venture I could see a buff at 600 yards or so. No bragging, but I have probably shot as much 45-70 stuff as Jack O'Connor has shot the 270 round. On paper, and on game. I will also tell all that I would have a most difficult time hitting a buffalo at 600 yards with a 45-70. That don't mean it can't be done, just saying I know my limitations and that of my guns in my hands. Also, would not opt for the 444 in this scenario either as I consider both close cover rounds. If one doubts that, take a pop at a deer running at a medium clip out around 100 yards. If you hold on the boiler room, you'll blow the deer's kidneys out. Fatal, but not pretty.

I'm also no authority on killing Buffalo as I have but one to my credit. I can say that the one I did kill took 3 hits from a 378 Weatherby with 300 grain A Square deadtoughs before it went down. Is that much gun required to kill buffalo? In that case it was. But I also know that buffalo have been killed quite dead with one shot from a 454 or a big bore handgun. Many have been killed square with a 30-06. So long as the bullet gets in the vitals and reaks havoc, it's a dead buffalo.

For a good spell I got caught up in killing power of guns. And if it wasn't at least 40 cal it just plain was no good. Now why would I make a hair rasing statement like that you ask? Well because my definition of effective is when the trigger is hit, the animal is down dead. The big bores will do that, but it's not just because of the bore size.

You have to have the proper action of the bullet, and you need to be in close to have it work at least 99% of the time. Consider that a GOOD 308 cal bullet like the Nosler Partition or the Speer Grand Slam, or even the Remington Core Lokt, when expanded, will be around .500 to a bit over that. Keep in mind, a 405 grain 45-70 bullet is ALREADY that size when it leaves the muzzle! I have seen the 400 Speers open up near an inch when you gas em up around 1800 fps. That rips a hole that not much walks away from. I have also seen BIGGER holes on the off side of game from 30-06 and 7mm guns using factory ammo.

IMHO, Weatherby was/is correct, speed has much to do with the killing power of a bullet. In my observations, that speed MUST be controlled by the action of the bullet. That's to say, the bullet has to hold together to a degree, else penetration is limited. The other philosiphy is for the bullet to get into the vitals a blow. I'll agree, when it works, it works like the hammer of Thor. But when the shot is muffed, for whatever the reason, you are going to have a wicked time tracking that animal down without an exit wound to drop spoor.

Be that as it may, the 45-70 is slow by todays standards, and that's inclusive of the souped up loads in the No 1 rifles. 2000 fps is not all that fast, and in a 7.5 pound rifle, it will make a flincher out of the best of us.

So is the 45-70 the berries? You betcha! In the right circumstances it's hard to beat. Ditto for the 444 Marlin In heavy timber and brush I'll take either any day of the week. In the open hardwoods or for shooting mountain to mountain there are better choices.

That could be why we NEED 27 different rifles! Ain't it great :-D

Coug
 

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Hey Coug

I loaded up some SPeer plated soft point 300gr in my .44 mag Marlin 94 CB limited. Now I don't have the load in front of me, but it was slightly under max. All I've shot with them were some hogs and a heavy bodied 4 horn ram. They sure seemed to penetrate fast with little to no expansion that I could tell of from the exit wound.
Would that particular bullet be one you would recmmend in a .444 for larger game? Do you have experience with that particular bullet?

Seems like they definately penetrate and on game such as elk might be good.markc
 

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re:.444

One thing that REALLY PI$$#S me off is when a detractror states that you can't buy ammo for a certain caliber at the route stores. ONLY A NEOTYPHE would purchase hunting ammo a destination store upon arrival to a hunting area. All ethic hunters usually take more than enough ammo from home to do the job. Ammo which said hunter has sighted in, shot and is confident in using in the field.
 

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Re: re:.444

The Happy Kaboomer said:
ONLY A NEOTYPHE would purchase hunting ammo a destination store upon arrival to a hunting area.
Or somebody that lost all of his ammo on the flight...Or somebody who simply forgot to quadruple check and left his ammo at home...Or a real lousy shot that ran out of ammo on the hunt! :)

Some guys are just plain unlucky and they NEED to have locally available ammo! ;) LOL!
 

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re:444

guest:
If it can't be killed with a 310 gr. .444 bullet then I'll go back and git my bigger gun which has a turrent and tracks.
Don't bash it just because you don't use it. BTW I see absolutley no need for the .260 remington. But if ti floats yer-boat use it!!!!
 

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Yellowstone

thats the first time I've ever read where someone said recoil from a 45-70 was less than a .444, if I understood your post correctly. I just don't see much advantage in a 45-70 if I have to handload to get the round I need to harvest game, comfortably or efficiently. I like not having to handload unless i just want to. So far the 4 or 6 or more factory loads for the .444 out currently is all I can see myself needing for my hunting needs. 240 gr on up to what 405 grains? What could I not harvest in North America with what is available if I place the bullet in the vitals? markc :)
 

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:shock:
What about the noise

I bought a Winchester 444 AE with ported barrel. I really, really like it. I bought it for the guns size and feel. The accuracy at 150 yard is very good but the noise from the short barrel muzzle blast is a real problem for me. I wonder if others have experienced the same. My hearing is compromised a bit from my work and age so I am not particularly sensitive to noise. This gun makes me go deaf and hurts my ear drums. I have made shots in open fields while hunting. The excitement of the moment should have numbed my sensitivity to something like noise but it didn’t. It is hard to ignore the ringing and what feels like someone slapping or clapping you left ear.
 

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444s

charlesala: use an ear plug in that ear. I know this sounds a bit weird but...whenever I shoot a short barrelled gun, be it rifle or pistol, the way I hold the gun will allow the report to hurt my left ear. When this happened in the field as well as on the range, I just plugged my left ear and all was fine. I guess it's just the way you turn your head when you bring the sights to bear and shoulder the rifle that allows the report to get to the (my) left ear. The plug works just fine. Use both, its better if both ears are protected, at least at the range.

Mikey.
 
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