Ballistically they can be loaded equally, The 450 was designed so that you cant put that large of a load in your old trapdoor. There are only a few ammo makers that produce top end loads for the 45-70, and they would most probably destroy the old springfields. But if you're rolling your own then you'll gain nothing from the 450.
I have a Marlin Guide Gun in 450 Marlin and it suits me just fine. But, if I had to do it over again, I would go with the 45-70. The 450 Marlin is just too hard to find in your average gun store and you can buy 45-70 Ammo that is just as hot as the 450 (Buffalo Bore, Garret).
bought my 1895m GG for $325 a few years ago and the noise was to much with the ports. Just traded it for a MR series with 22 inch barrel and NO ports. It was an extra $100. but I didn't feel right chopping the guide gun barrel off to get rid of the ports. I hope the noise is livable for hunting, the M series sucked.
:shock: According to my Hornady manual, the 45/70 with a 500 gr bullet can be loaded to within 300 fps of the Win 458. How much more magnum do you want? Fired some "Ruger" 300 gr loads(2400 fps) in my 8.2 lb NEF, an the recoil was way beyond what I'd care to handle, I'll stick to 2200 fps an below. The Marlin's aren't much heavier, if as heavy, as my NEF so far as I can tell, how much more pressure the 450 cases can handle over the 45/70's is pretty moot unless your sensitivity to recoil approachs the I'm dead level.
As I stated before on another thread when I first started to build my Ruger No. 1 in .450 Marlin I asked Hornady technicians many questions and one I asked was which cartridge, case wise, was stronger? They wrote me back, I still have the letters, with the statement that in the cases they produce the .450 Marlin case was thicker and stronger than the .45-70 cases they produce. I do know this that a friend at our gun club has a Ruger No. 1 in .45-70 and his cases stretch more and he gets fewer number of reloads out of each case than I do. The .45-70 was and is a great ‘black powder cartridge’ but if you want a modern cartridge then the choice is simple, go with the .450 Marlin. Lawdog
Go with the 45/70 you"ll need to re load ethier; unless your happy with the one single factoy loading for te .450 that uses a 350gr. bullet .
PMC has a 350gr. cartridge for the 45/70 that matches the .450 load.
Myself I use 53gr.s of IMR 3031 packed behind a 405gr. rem. bullet out of a 18.5 in . barrel it moves just a hair over 1800 fps.
Marlin should have made a .41 cartridge based on the 45/70 ; instead of the .450 .
No animal in the world is going to know the difference. You want magnum performance from the 45/70 but don't reload? There's always Garrett and Buffalo Bore factory loads. I own neither, but either can be loaded so near the other that they are practically the same. Get a 400 grain 458 slug moving at around 1800-2000 fps and its academic, no animal will spit the bullet back at you. More than enough punkin for animal on this continent and neither are ideal for long shots at unwounded animals. Shoot I'd even through the 444 and 405 into the mix. For all practical purposes they the same. Only on paper is there a difference. :wink:
Let anyone with one of the .450 guns shoot some of the Garrett cartridges in a 45/70 model. THEN tell me how much stronger that the .450 is. Garret doesn't make .450 loads because he couldn't get any extra performance out of them.
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Don't waist your time with the 450. Go with the 45/70.
45-70 factory ammo is much more available, in greater variaty an less expensive than the 450. You can get 450 performance out of a 45-70, even in factory loads from Buffalo Bore and Garrett.
As much as I like Marlin Rifle Co. and Hornady, the 450 is really a marketing gimmik for those who don't know enough about the 45-70, its history, what ammo is available and its capability.
The 450 was a way for Marlin and Hornady to advertise, for little cost a "New Product & New Cartridge". It was a great way to get thier names out some more on the TV shows and guns & ammo magazines for free !
With the Hornady 300 gr HP I use 46 grs. of IMR 4198 with CCI 200 primers. Out of my rifle I get 1850 fps and groups of 1 1/2" or smaller. This is a very clean load. I just bought some Hornady 350 gr FN and haven't had the chance to work up a load for it.
A friend of mine just loaded me up some 45-70 bear loads. 1795fps. 405gr fp bullet, Ill have to ask him the charge size. I can tell you this though, WOW!! They hit like a truck on both ends of my little 1895gg. Dodge, where do you live? Im in Rixford PA.
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