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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
This is my first time posting on this website but I hear it's the best place to find answers how about the Handi rifle so I figured I'd give it a whirl

My Dad recently gave me a Handi rifle chambered in 4570, since I live in Ohio I can use it to legally hunt deer, I tried to get it sighted in with the weaver mount he had installed and an a1 fixed 4 power cheap o scope.......i get any where from 2 to 4 inch groups of bags at 100 yards...... Which would be fine but sometimes it groups 2 inches high, sometimes 2 inches low left etc........ So I started investigating and found the weaver mount, though tight, allows some play if you pull up and down on scope, not much, but if u pull with some force you can get it to move up and down about 1/16 to 1/8......

So I thought maybe shift is the scope, and I replaced it with a Vortex 3 by 9 Crossfire 2,...... Well that was way worse! Poi would walk off target low and right, no matter how much I would adjust it, it would keep walking down and right......

So I put cheap 4x back on...... Tried shooting 325 ftx leverevolution and federal 300 grain fusion.... the Hornady shoots better but still have the shifting POI problem

The thing kicks like a freaking mule, and two days in a row I shot two boxes of shells trying to get it figured out, I just don't know what's going on, I'm sure I'm not getting the best trigger pools ever but they're not that bad, I'll go back to my AR and shoot 5 shot Group at 100 inside an inch, so I keep trying to find a way to blame myself but I just don't know that it's 100% my fault, everybody says this is the place to come to with handy rifle questions, I've never been here before but I figured I'd give it a try as I've spent well over the cost of the gun in ammo trying to get it to shoot consistently at 100 yards, it's still in a pie plate but the two to three inch groups move a couple inches in different directions,

Then I read all kinds of people comments saying they can shoot 1 inch groups at 100 yards with the 4570 Handi rifle all day long. So is there something wrong with my gun? It is just me? Not like I'm a new shooter I've been shooting over 20 years and can shoot sub Moa with my Ruger MPR which isn't a fancy Precision AR. And my Savage 340 bolt action 30-30 will hold under inch and three quarter groups no matter what, usually they're about an inch and a half and this is all with Factory ammo

Does anyone have any suggestions of what might be going on?
 

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My 45-70 would hold about a 6 inch group at 50 yards until I broke in the barrel. I think that took me about 60-80 rounds and it tightened up. I had a Redfield and a Bushnell on mine and it destroyed both of those so I put a Nikon on it and never looked back. I have a Vortex on a .444 though so I doubt you hurt the scope. I personally have never liked the Weaver bases I would change that out and fire a couple shots and see where your at.
 

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^^ what he said. start with the mount, make sure every thing is clean and the screws dont bottom out. also get you a shoulder pad. i know, who cares what ya look like at the range. you could be recoil flinching. i think you have a combination of things going on. also i have had bad luck with factory ammo lately.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Did you correct the up and down play on the scope mount. Sounds like your scope mounting screws bottomed out in the receiver and didn't tighten the mount down. Or a better way of saying that is the screws are a bit too long. If the mount moves, no scope swap will cure the problem.
So the screws are tight, the play comes from the front half of the mount being un supported, the actual metal has some flex to it, maybe since it's not free floated pressure on the front stock is causing poi shift? It's mainly up n down at this point....... Is 2 to 3 inch groups at 100 normal for this gun?
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
My 45-70 would hold about a 6 inch group at 50 yards until I broke in the barrel. I think that took me about 60-80 rounds and it tightened up. I had a Redfield and a Bushnell on mine and it destroyed both of those so I put a Nikon on it and never looked back. I have a Vortex on a .444 though so I doubt you hurt the scope. I personally have never liked the Weaver bases I would change that out and fire a couple shots and see where your at.
Well the vortex did have some issues on my ar 15 with not moving when I adjusted it then jumping all at once..... So I'm guessing that scope is just screwed, I use an inch pound fat wrench to mount, I bought a leupold mount n scope and my ar has been flawless ever since, one click actually equals a quarter inch at 100 yards and it holds fantastic groups with factory ammo ...... So the vortex must be messed up..... But on to the handi rifle, the mount didn't just wiggle, you actually have to push pretty darnhard but if u do it will flex a little....... I. Figure that can't be good.......
 

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We have three of these in the family and all three are shooting 1" or better with handloads. We started out at 2100 fps with a 300 gr bullet but two of us have dropped back to 2000 fps. Yes they kick pretty hard lol. One has a cheap Simmons 4x, one a Nikon Monarch 2-7, and the other a nikon Pro-Staff 2-7. I don't like the Weaver mounts, I use short factory H&R and Leupold #56515 mounts. They don't hang over like the Weaver.
 
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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Does it sound like it's just me? That would be weird since I'm able to group it, I'm just exhausted having spent 400 dollars in ammo trying to get it sighted in..... I've never had another rifle I couldn't get to at least hold 2 inch groups at 100 n consisent poi
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
My dad told me he had it in a lead sled n it only shot 1.5 inch group at 75 yards....... So that pretty much tells me the gun will only shoot 1.75 at 100 with that ammo scope n mount combo, which Im shooting between 2 and 3 inchs....... Like I said, that wouldn't bother me If the poi was always the same........ At this point I could have bought a way nicer gun with the money I've spent on ammo! But it's sentimental n I promised my dad I'd shoot some deer with it
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
We have three of these in the family and all three are shooting 1" or better with handloads. We started out at 2100 fps with a 300 gr bullet but two of us have dropped back to 2000 fps. Yes they kick pretty hard lol. One has a cheap Simmons 4x, one a Nikon Monarch 2-7, and the other a nikon Pro-Staff 2-7. I don't like the Weaver mounts, I use short factory H&R and Leupold #56515 mounts. They don't hang over like the Weaver.
The leupold mount says it's for muzzle loaders..... Does it still work for handi rifles?
 

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The leupold mount says it's for muzzle loaders..... Does it still work for handi rifles?
Yes it does. We have lots of Handi Rifles in the family and most have the Leupold mount.
 

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Here's a Leupold mount. This is an older thin profile barrel. Yours won't have the front gap.

Air gun Trigger Gun accessory Shotgun Machine gun
 

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Here's the shorter of the H&R mounts on a 20 ga. These are hard to find tho..

Trigger Air gun Gun accessory Gun barrel Wood
 

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Same Leupold mount on a Henry 45/70 to give you an idea. This as all the pics I have handy....
Air gun Trigger Shotgun Gun accessory Gun barrel
 

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Maybe try a egw rail, those are pretty cheap. Might help eliminating the rail as a potential problem part that can cause issues.

For the recoil, 45-70 is not light but I find it very manageable with my handi rifle because the stock fits me better than other previous rifles I've tried. It turns out I have short, stubby, T-Rex arms I think. Maybe look at your LOP and see if it's a bit off, having the rifle beat the snot out of you isn't going to help with accuracy.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Yes it does. We have lots of Handi Rifles in the family and most have the Leupold mount.
If my dad was only getting 1.5 at 75 yards in a lead sled does that maybe mean I got a lemon? I mean that kinda adds up as far as the groups I'm Shooting, 2 to 3 inches on bags at 100.....lead sled with gun strapped down always gonna be tighter groups......and I'm sure some of its me as the 4x scope doesnt allow me to aim 1 moa lol it covers up a 2 inch bull so I can only aim at 2 inch accuracy...... And the trigger is heavy as you all know so it's not the works best trigger pull, but as I said 2 to 3 inches in fine with me at 100..... It's the changing poi that concerns me, I'll try a different mount, and resting gun on frame instead of fore grip, see if that helps, but season is a week away so I might have to just shoot 50 yards and in n play with it later......
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Maybe try a egw rail, those are pretty cheap. Might help eliminating the rail as a potential problem part that can cause issues.

For the recoil, 45-70 is not light but I find it very manageable with my handi rifle because the stock fits me better than other previous rifles I've tried. It turns out I have short, stubby, T-Rex arms I think. Maybe look at your LOP and see if it's a bit off, having the rifle beat the snot out of you isn't going to help with accuracy.
It's synthetic stock and very light, plus the mount only has 2 slots and the scope has bad eye relief so I have to lean uncomfortably forward, and it is brutally hard recoil imo
 
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