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Discussion Starter #1
I shoot a 50 cal. Hawkins made by TC. percussion. I use a 176gr. rb with a 0.010" patch. I use 90 grs of 2f black powder, can anyone tell me the muzzle velocity of such a load? Or can anyone give me a link to a ballistic site ?
thanks.
 

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Dixie Gun works has a scale in their catalog that estimates the velocity, base on the weight of lead to powder. Using the scale it indicates that twice the weight of lead to powder(176grs-90grs) the velocity should be @ 2135. I have never chronoed a 50 so I hoe this helps. I am sure others have. Doug
 

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Discussion Starter #5
I have a chronograph, so I think tomorrow I'll shoot through it,lets say 5 shots. Then I 'll post a report of my findings.
I was was guessing about 1900 myself.
Thanks, I'll let you know tomorrow.
 

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I got 1780fps out of my Lyman Deerstalker with a 24" barrel. The load was 80g of Pyrodex RS, .495 round ball at 182g, and a 15th pillow ticking patch with Wonderlube.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
well,.....I think my powder must be old. I shot twice through the chrony and came up with 1510 and 1525fps.
I got looking at my can of powder and it is from 1984. So, maybe that's why its slower than we thought?
Does anyone know the properties of black powder and if it will loose its power after a while?
I am using GOEX 2f . with CCI #11 caps.
 

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powder can lose some of its poop over time but i would doubt that is what your seeing . i have used powder recently from the 1960's and not had any noticeable change .

Did you read you patches ? If not do so , look for tears or burnt holes . These will cause a drop

The twist of your barrel can also make some differences as can the condition of your bore .
The other thing is the size of your bore .
Just because your barrel says 50 cal or the manufacture states it’s a 50 cal does not mean it is a .500 bore
If your bore is actually a .505 or .510 your patch will not be as tight .

beings your shooting a TC i would chance to say its your patch .
go down range and pick some up and see what they are doing . could be week material or you have a sharp spot in the barrel thats tearing them somewhat
 

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Most guys I know use a .015 patch and a .490 ball...A .010 patch is mighty thin to do everything we are asking it to do and not burn through...I'd also switch to FFF if you're going to buy some anyway...Those shorter barrels probably need a faster burning powder...Adding a bit of wasp nesting or a felt wad between the powder and ball can also help give a better seal and give better velocity...
 

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Discussion Starter #10
flintlock said:
.I'd also switch to FFF if you're going to buy some anyway...Those shorter barrels probably need a faster burning powder...
How much 3f can I safely use in that rifle? If I use 90grs of 2f, maybe I should use 70grs of 3f? With 3f being a faster burn, what would you recomend for a starting charge of the 3f? ???
Any help is appreciated here .
Jeff
 

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well i would follow the manufactures recommendations as to the powder charge . If I recall TC is 110 grains ? Im sure someone will chime in here that knows for sure .
Roughly when switching from 2 to 3f you reduce the load by 10 grains .
That being said in my 54 and 62 I shoot 80 grains of 3F .
But when I use a conical in my 54 the charge is 110 grains of 3F .
If you rifle is in good sound condition you should be safe at 100 grains of either.

However you shouldn’t get hung up on velocities .
Work up a load for your rifle and use what you find to be most accurate
For hunting loads using a RB I would stay in the 70 + grain charges for out past 75 yards
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Captchee, my rifle shoots it's best group at 90gr 2f, so if I switch to 3f, I'll start off at 70 grs then and work my way up. I'll get my best group and then shoot that load through the chrony to see what is doing.
Thanks, :)
Jeff
 

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Thy Lyman Black Powder Handbook lists a 490 RB weighing 177 grains using a .015 patch and 90 gr of FFg as 1768 fps at the muzzle.
My hunting load is the same but with 90 grains of FFFG at 1844 FPS at the muzzle. At 100 yds, the velocity is only 28 fps difference. The primary difference I have found is that the 3f fouls less due to less unburnt powder. Cleans up a little easier to. :D
 

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gooser said:
Captchee, my rifle shoots it's best group at 90gr 2f, so if I switch to 3f, I'll start off at 70 grs then and work my way up. I'll get my best group and then shoot that load through the chrony to see what is doing.
Thanks, :)
Jeff
Yes in theory you should see your accuracy with 3 F in the 70-80 grain charge .
Couple things to remember here though .

While F. FF , FFF and FFFF are all ground from the same amount of powder , the finer the grain gets the faster it burns IE there is more surface area .
The other thing is that with a faster burn , you get a quicker/ steeper pressure spike which results in higher breech pressures .
Thus it will take some fine tuning of your 3F charge to get the same MV that you see with 2F . most like you will never get it exact but just a little less or a little more .
You may also find out your rifle simply doesn’t like 3F and no mater what you do you cant get the same accuracy as you find with 2F . The other side is also true . You may find with 3f you get improved accuracy . There is simply no way of knowing without trying different set ups

So keep in mind every component plays a part in the end result .
Muzzleloading isn’t like center fire when it comes to the charts no mater how much we want it to be .
that’s what you are seeing here .
When reloading cartridges you have a table that tells you basically what combinations are safe within a given rifle . You go down the chart and it will tell you if you use X primer , X brand of powder , X amount of powder with X bullet , seated to X depth you will get X velocities .
“I know there is more to it guys but this is simplified “

However with muzzleloading this doesn’t always hold true because there are so many variables
Any difference in barrel length , bore , type or quality of rifling , patch , patch material , Patch Lube or any combination of the above will change your result .

As the poster above mentioned , using wasp nests . I to have seen through the chronograph an increase on MV of up to 300FPS by adding wasp nest to my load before the PRB . But again results may very depending again any differences in the above list

Thus to often when we look at the charts of ballistic formulas our end result does not match even when we think they must .
Now im not saying don’t use the charts and ballistics formulas . They are a good staring point however they should never take the place of actual shooting for that’s the only way you will ever know really what your rifle is doing at different ranges with different load combinations
 

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gooser...75-90grs of FFF is plenty for deer...I shoot 80grs FFF in my .54...When I built it back in the 80s, I started with 120, went to 100, then down to 80...Roundballs kill with mass, not velocity...

One of the biggest thing folks over look in a patched ball is the patch...It's imperative that you look at them after you shoot them, they should look good enough to use again...I used to use precut patches, finally went to WalMart and bought a yard of cotton pillow ticking...I lube with a mix of bees wax, caster oil and Murphys Oil soap...I also used SnoSeal for 25 years or so...I cut in strips about a 1 1/4 to 1 1/2 wide, put on newspaper and take a putty knife and apply to each side, then roll up and put in the microwave for 20 seconds...When I use, I put the ball over the loading block or muzzle, with the ball/patch flush and cut with a sharp knife...The WalMart patching is about .018 thick, so you might need a short starter to get it down, but the lead confirms to the barrel size and after getting down about 4-5 inches with the short starter it goes down with the ramrod...

For the second shot, if you don't want to clean the barrel, try a .015 store bought patch and check for accuracy...I load with the thicker patch for the 1st shot when hunting and have the thinner for reloading...
 
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