Graybeard Outdoors banner

1 - 9 of 9 Posts

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
9,526 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
ck - I'm a 45 fan myself but have carried and shot a bunch of 9mms. Of all the loads that work the best, both in terms of handgun functioning and business end impact, either the 115 grain Remington +P+ (about 1250'/sec) or the 125 grain +Ps (at about 1200-1225), or the equivalent, work best.

The most effective bullet weights for the 9mm are in the 115-125 grain range. The 88-100 grain bullets are a bit light, especially during colder weather when your opponenet might be wearing multiple layers of heavy clothing. The 147 grain subsonic bullets are not really effective manstoppers, as the FBI determined after that horrendous Miami shootout where the 'it creates a fatal non-healing wound' 147 grain 9mms failed miserably to stop a determined opponent.

There are some handloads in the older Lyman manuals for the 9mm, using 158 or 160 grain round nose cast bullets that can be shot at better velocities than the 38 Special with the same bullet, if you want something healthy and fun to plink and/or practice with. I load those just to kick around a few cans and have some fun when one of my 9mm buddies and I head to the range.

The 9mm is a people caliber - that's what it was designed for. The British SAS uses the 9mm and trains for double taps. If they use anything other than the NATO 125 grain ball it's news to me but even with ball ammo, those guys and their 9mms don't fail. I think your best bet is to stay with what you have if the gun (and you) likes it. The heaviest I would go to for personal defense is the 125 grain. Your 92F might like that too.

Just Mikey and his two cents worth.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
108 Posts
? For you guys that carry a 9mm

Just remember the 147 was designed for poping dogs and the odd sentry,it doesn't start to work untill you bump it up to the +p range.
Once there it has a fine rep for stopping fights,but if the 92 likes 115's try some of the Triton or Cor-Bon loads the faster the 9 moves the better your going to be.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
541 Posts
? For you guys that carry a 9mm

mikey! let give you some personal insight to the miami shootout! the 147 silvertip worked perfect! it was fired from almost 40yds away went through the car door of a monte carlo! throught the bg's arm through his torso and stopped 1/2 inch from his heart yet still severed seval major arteries! and fully mushroomed! were did it fail! please! tell me! let me help you ! i had the chance to talk to the survivng agnt several yrs ago at street survival! ! and bad tactics got those agents killed! this shooting was our time version of the newhall incident! were training over shadows gear! period did you know the agents had fully loaded 870.s racked ! or 2 mp5's in the trunks when they new form reports that these 2 bg were serious hitters! there cockyness got them! in trouble! bad tactics ! got then in trouble not the bullet! period yes a +p+ version is a better load! it would most likley have come apart at those velocities! in the car! yeap 38's and 9mm versa mini 14 and a 12 gauge! funny thing is they were luck platt was taken out early by the deafing boom inside the vehicle of the mini 14 as it was fired near his ear! by matrix this was found out after by the ruptred ear drums! oops!
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
9,526 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
Deputy: Thank you for the clarification. I wasn't aware that the 147 grain 9mms that took Matrix had penetrated the car door. The reviews I read didn't mention that and indicated that he was outside the vehicle when he took his three hits. This is where I felt the 147 grain 9mm had failed. I'll go back and read the reviews again - I think it was Ayoob's writeup on that shootout that led me to think this. However, unless the were +P loadings, which was also not mentioned as I recall, the subsonic 9mms in that bullet weight don't impress me much with their ability to stop a determined shooter. True, Matrix's biggest mistake was to take out his own partner with 'near to the ear' blasts from that Mini-14, but, poor tactics made it worse for the feds.

I've had to use the 9mm before but all that was available was 125 grain ball. We practiced the same tactics the SAS uses and found that in those situations the 9mm works. But that means 4 rounds per opponent, which is pretty effective and pretty immediate. I just felt that if CKs 92F (and he) like the 115 grain +Ps, he should stick with them as they are pretty effective. That is assuming of course that he is not using them the same way the 9s were used in Miami.

I think many individuals and many Police organizations learned a hard lesson from that incident. Tactics have changed, weapons have changed and training has changed. Hopefully this won't happen again or when it does we will be better prepared to manage the situation more effectively.

Thanks again for the clarification Deputy, I appreciate it. This be Mikey.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
108 Posts
? For you guys that carry a 9mm

I think the biggest thing the FBI learn from all this is don't bring a pistol to a machinegun fight. They had them but didn't check them out.they had shotguns with them but they were either on the back seat of one car or in the trunk. Plus remember those two were just flat bad,they practiced alot and never thought twice about shooting. In the 9mm stay with the +p loading if your gun likes them, and it will do the job. Mickey remember the SAS and the like don't train to wound, and they do use other the ball when the need be.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
541 Posts
? For you guys that carry a 9mm

I trully agree with you over the 9mm +p loading is a good choice at all cost! i talked with that agent after the street survival seminar the bad guy took his final three hits out side of the vehicle after is was disabled! life is good stay safe!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
16 Posts
? For you guys that carry a 9mm

I have pt-99 close to 20 years old... about the same gun except for sights

a plus on mine, is that for some reason,accuracy seems best when using +p's like Cor-bon, followed closely by win-silvertips (federal hp's are only fair, and it has never has liked fmj's)

she kinda has expensive tastes, huh?

:)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
80 Posts
Best 9mm Ammo Currently

Surf over to Ammolab.com, the latest version of Winchesters Talon series is marketed for LEO use and in current Spec-Op use but is available to us civies online.
Ranger T series!!
With continued use of +P+ amm in the Beretta a heavier recoil spring is highly recommended, give Wolf springs a call.
PS, there is no industy SAMMI standard for +P+ pressures, BEWARE off brand loads!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
541 Posts
? For you guys that carry a 9mm

ok plugs are bad! pain in the neck to get in, understress as it is trust me ever been in a serious gunfight? and you cant hear your partners, you cant tell fire direction!

now that siad i carry a set of pro ears in my unit all times on my bag, and in my house on my nightstand, and in my swat gear!
 
1 - 9 of 9 Posts
Top