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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Here's an Email I got this morning from my trapping buddy who just got into trapping this year. Very ambitious and succesful individual, but this note takes the cake. To set it up I should tell you that the weather preceeding this note was basicaly 3" of freezing rain, followed by a hard freeze. Dan will certainly appreciate this. :)

He writes:

Yesterday was a debacle, there were a few spots where the traps and dirt
holes were filled, lure mixed in with the bedding, and bait floating
around, and ice on the top.
I was telling you about the clay soil, well there you go!
No apparent activity, but had a few priceless follies.
One of my favorite sets had a crust about 1/2 inch of ice over the bed.
Removed it and re-bedded the trap, antifreeze, blended the set and was
ready to go.
Put on the bait gloves and pulled the large jar of Lennon's SACF, got a
nice blob of lure on the way to the hole, dropped the bottle, hit the pan,
exploded,
and showered the whole area with lure. Good thing those bridgers are 4
coiled, Hehehehe
Lucky I did not get glass in my eyes, as I was reaching for the bottle as
it fell, one of those slow motion deals.
Tools, the whole bucket was sprayed, coat, hat, hip boots, work pants, and
shirt all covered with lure.
Lucky it was the last trap of the nite, and I did manage to scrape about
1/2 oz. into a mostly empty fox hollow bottle.
What a nightmare, talk about a red ass special.
I went down to the river and spent a chilly 30 minutes trying to get the
Asa special off my stuff.
Good thing the wife was not around when I got home, had to shower till the
hot water ran out.
Oh yeah, SACF (Super all call fox) kinda burns when it gets in your eyes, and if you put a half
oz. on your face, you can't smell anything for hours after removed,
a real testimonial of the calling power and stick-to-it-tiveness of Mr.
Lennon's formula.
I have 10 operational, and a couple questionable.
Good thing I have decided to trap in these conditions, should make next
year a cake walk.
Worst part, that was my favorite lure, and now I don't have enough to
finish the season.
 

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A Lenon's lure testimonial.......sort of. :

THAT IS AWSOME :-D !!! Makes alot of my mishaps seem petty .
 

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Testimonial

Ha dont be surprised if you have fox tracks outside yr bedroom window next morn or circling your truck LOL. SNiff , sniff yep i can still smell ya LOL
 

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A Lenon's lure testimonial.......sort of. :

:) I've read better testimonials! LOL! If he wants more lure he can give me a call and have it Priority Mail in a day or two. Ace
 

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A Lenon's lure testimonial.......sort of. :

Tell your buddy next time, he should trudge around in a circle and tear things up. Then he should roll around, spray the area with urine. Wa La an artificial remake. I recomend a set evey 1/4 mile until the lure's gone. Also, if he would skip the shower he could go calling at dawn and likely fill his stretchers! :D
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
A Lenon's lure testimonial.......sort of. :

I'm clearing a spot out in the shed for him on his next visit. I think the guest couch will be occupied that day.... :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
A Lenon's lure testimonial.......sort of. :

I'm pretty sure the set was considered contaminated and pulled. I'm not sure if he ever re-made it. Perhaps if I assigned him a nick-name he would start posting, and fill us all in? You still lurking out there Mr. Fuzzy?
LOL
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
A Lenon's lure testimonial.......sort of. :

He has a fire wall up on his work computer, so here's his reply:

No fox or yote has got within 10 feet of the set!
The deer have torn the whole area up, grinner tracks all over as well. After the mishap I got most of lure into the hole, to cut down on the scent, so far the only thing that will get real close to the hole is grinners and deer. There are fox and yote tracks in the area, they seem to stop way away from the set , and circle in huge (30 yard) circles . I have seen in the fresh snow where a fox has circled the set way wide downwind, but not get closer, 10 feet or so on the up wind side. When this happened there was a 25 MPH wind , and the tracks were very small, I am guessing Grey.

Interesting sidebar, there are obvious places where the fox turned 90 degrees to there line of travel to come to investigate the odor. I back tracked the sign around the set to satisfy my own curiosity, and can say without a doubt there are strong indications the yote and fox both come WAY out from the set to take a look where the stink is coming from. Well over 200 yards! No kidding, I could not believe it! One of the reasons I suspect they are coming to the smell is the manner they approach. I thought they would be able to come right in to the odor, not so. The tracks look much like a bird dog when it first gets a hit on a grouse, back and forth at 30 degree angles to the line of travel. Further I will swear there is strong evidence to support the notion that fox will stand up on his back feel to get his nose up in the air. I stood and looked at the odd tracks for a minute before I figure out what this guy was up to . It was cool to see as the fox was quartering away from the set, stopped and stood in one place, then got op on his hind legs changes directions and zig zagged to the set stopping twice to stand on his back legs. I took the liberty to make 2 flat sets without traps,(ground is frozen 12 "
deep) in the area, one by each of the original sets about 50 yards apart, and both of these have been used by fox, supporting the ideal of making post type sets near strong odor sources. I went so far as to place a flat rock on the ground where I wanted to fox to step, and had the joy of having a fox print right on the "mock pan". I have been back to the area 5 times since, always after a new snow scouting for next year, and can never seem to stop myself from going up and looking despite no trap( pulled it that day).
 

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A Lenon's lure testimonial.......sort of. :

Just goes to show ya that when Asa says a pea size gob he does so for a reason. I guess too much of a good thing is really bad. So much for the more stink the better...at least for Asa's lure!
 

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A Lenon's lure testimonial.......sort of. :

Mallard:

Thanks for printing his message. The message clearly reflects what I have been saying to trappers time and time again, "more isn't necessarily better." I'll say it again, using too much lure, or too strong of a lure for the season and temperature, is a number one cause of set avoidance by both fox and coyote. As your friend mentioned, canines as well as most animals will stand on their hind feet when the get a wisp of scent in the air. This is why visible sets with eye appeal generally out perform more subtle sets. If the lure is overwhelming to the acute canine's nose, they will analyze and evaluate the odors from a distance and if their curiosity is satisfied they may just move on. I have experimented with scores of formulas by some of North America's best trappers, the result always being similar. In my part of the country, canines are almost always wary of a large bait, circleing again and again for days before risking their hide to come on in, if they come in at all. Overwhelming lures and over used lures can create this same wariness. I have observed this from blinds again and again. My wife is a wildlife photographer and we have sat in blinds day after day observing how animals react to lures and baits and how they approach or avoid them. My favorite thing in deer season is to have some hole sets around the perimeter of my deer blind so I can learn while getting some venison. I believe in my locality that animals may possibly fear a bear at any large bait. I have observed nervous **** circleing large baits and standing on their hind leggs to look the area over, running for their life if a bear was coming in. This type of wariness is not a normal trait of a **** that approaches a dirthole set lured properly, I have observed that too. To make an analogy to overpowering scents at a set, I have known a large number of high numbers coyote bounty men back in that era, all of whom utilized dead skunks as a canine draw, but none that I know of ever used a skunk as bait right at a set. The reason is obvious, the odor is overwhelming. Myself and all others would bury the skunk to make the odor more subtle, back 30 to 50 feet from the set with just a portion of the tail showing as a visual. Canines would circle the skunk for several days and come upon the sets made around the perimeter lured with a dab of reasonably powered lure. Now I know there is at least one poster on the forums that insists all of this is "nonsense" so I would expect we will be hearing from him. But don't forget, i've observed animals in action again and again and again over 50 years, what I say is a fact. If higher powered lure was the answer to canine better working a set, proven lure makers like myself, Hawbaker, Carman, etc. would be making them. There is no secret about which lure ingredients are more powerful to the human nose than others, especially in our modern era of high powered chemicals manufactured for the perfume trade. I sell what works, lures with multiple ingredients emulsified into heavy, thick, long lasting, intense bases. One ingredient does not overpower the others so that some are nullified. When say 14 different ingredients are carefully blended into a lure, this is what piques the animal's curiosity and keeps him at the set longer. Some of the best lure ingredients found through years of experimentation are relatively mild but plenty intense for a canine's nose. It would be a shame to nullify some of these fine proven ingredients just to make a lure for trappers rather than for animals.
Ace
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
A Lenon's lure testimonial.......sort of. :

Should add that this testimonial carries no bias with it and simply noted the facts and observations, and my bud is an observation extrodenare. I tossed back and forth the idea of posting his note, as I certainly didn't want folks to think that this was indicating avoidance of a lure, as it certainly wasn't intended to carry that message, and as was noted in the earlier note....this jar was/is his favorite. With more than an ounce of lure at the set, and in light of current dialog on other posts, felt it may actualy create some additional, positive dialog concerning lure usage. I'm glad to see that it was recieved with this in mind! Carry on... :wink:
 

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Amount of lure at set and use of skunks

To show you the ability to pick up smells on a yote read on: I caught a large female yote and two of her offspring late in November. I put a flat set downwind of where i caught the female and youngsters approximately 30 yds. The set was lured with Asas' Coyote all call and all i used was a Q-tip dipped in lure and put under a shelled corn cob at flat set. Three weeks later and 3 inches of snow over set i picked up a big male yote that weighed 51 lbs. This old dog had been around for awhile and after all the time since set was first made still smelled the lure so as more isnt better. Also there was a skunk that was taken early in season **** trapping approximately 75 yds upwind staked to ground to keep yotes fm carrying off. Alot of trappers get discouraged only after a few days but animals have to be in area first and possibly are but dont work set, so patience is one part of being a trapper and being confident in your lure and set.
 

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A Lenon's lure testimonial.......sort of. :

That is a good example of lure usage RdFx. Believe me, if those canines are anywhere near, they will find a lure if the wind direction is right. if the wind is wrong, visible set with good eye appeal help one's harvest. After I bottle lures, every dog from here to kingdom come is smelling my finger tips for a week even after i've used the skunk nullifying formula on them, scrubbed them 10 times with dish soap and ajax, and rubbed deoderant into them. I tried my Labrador out on 1 grain, the size of a sugar granule, of musk ambrette to see if he would detect it. He run directly to it just as if it was a whole dead cow. I don't believe in skimping on lures, I use a decent sized gob. However, there is no need for one to overdo it either. Ace
 

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A Lenon's lure testimonial.......sort of. :

RdFX, I've seen, or should say see the same thing over and over. Sets made the first day bringing coyotes in snooping around, especially after a fresh snow, weeks and even months later. The problem is the dang things can't tell where I want them to step with a covering of snow.

I never considered that the intensity of a carcass odor caused them to circle, Hmmmm. I just figure they were lery of the thing. Seems that once the crows are on it and they, or others, have come before, the circling slows and direct approaches become more common. But I see how your observation fits, especially when I consider that you hail from a place that has trees and things to block the line of sight Come to think of it when I have a carcass down in our "timber" the coyotes leave the trails and circle a bit on every approach also.

Mallard, what your buddy was seeing was avoidance plain and simple. That does'nt have to be a bad thing. In chemistry and physics these types of reactions are refered to as concentration dependant. As far as that goes every chemical reaction is concentration dependant and most have three phases; threshold level, enough to just get things going. From this point on things just get faster in some specific relationship to increasing concentrations. Finally, you get to saturation where more doesn't change the rate. With some reactions extreme concentrations can slow things for a number of reasons. Also, in complex mixtures higher concentrations of "A" can cause secondary and, often, undesirable things to happen.

So what you say. Well smell and taste are chemistry, albeit complex, at work.

You know what I think? Your buddy got himself a whole pile of real good and useful info for the price of a jar of lure. Now there's a thought for a marketing strategy. LOL Thanks for sharing and thank your buddy for telling us.
 

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A Lenon's lure testimonial.......sort of. :

I truly don't understand why so many get refusals on the first night.

If that coyote is present that night- and if the set is good, most coyotes will work it that night.

I too trap in light snow, and try to make sets in falling snow if posssbile, and see no sign of a general trend of avoidance on night one. Some yes- but a majority of time, no.

In fact, I try to set fresh sets periodically on my line- every 3-4 days I set up a new spot. I would guess, based on a guesstimate on the last years, that success on new locations is at least 1 out of 3- if not closer to 50/50.- the next morning- IF, a big IF, I am setting on fresh sign.

I do believe that improper visuals at a set, ie something that makes a coyote nervous, will cause him to avoid the set until he gets used to it. THis is often mistaken as meaning the set has "to air out" but all it wsa was a case oif "familarity breeds contempt" and the coyte worked the set. Federal research in Utah has shown the importance of visuals- in fact, it is proven, to most peoples satisfaction, that coyotes hunt more by sight than by scent. Specific tests were run to study the coyotes ability to detect prey- and it was found that they found prey faster that they could see and not smell that hidden prey that put off a good scent. Interesting stuff.
 

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A Lenon's lure testimonial.......sort of. :

Trappnman says...
I truly don't understand why so many get refusals on the first night.

I don't have refusals on the first night either. In fact, I have caught many an animal within several minutes after making a set. However, I did get set refusals on the first night when I was young and inexperienced and thought I knew more than my teacher. Like many young trappers I thought if a little dab of lure is good a lot more will ensure ultimate success. WRONG, when I was forced to revaluate my teachings and note my shortfall in comparison to my teacher, I began to catch animals in equivalent numbers. From my personal experiences and those of scores of trappers I have helped and instructed over the years, there are three major factors for set avoidance for the first few days. #1...Overusage of lures and using too strong of a lure for the season and temperature. #2...Excess human scent because the trapper took no precautions to minimize the scent, spent countless time constructing the set, traipsed and tracked all over the set location looking for the right place to make a set. Then, the trapper continued to fuss with the sets and keep adding lure when avoidance was noted, perpetuating the problem. #3...Tracking another scent trail of god knows what foreign odors right up to each set rather than wearing clean boots that are used only when
at or near a set. The least on could do is shuffle the soles of their footwear in grass, mud, sand, evergreen, etc. before heading to the set area. One poster and expert who traps in ranch country just told me he rubs his boots in cow pies befor walking up to a set. This odor is natural to his area and it helps to camouflage other potentially damaging odors. ---- For sets that continued to be avoided after a couple of days, one must examine other basic factors. Does the set appear reasonably natural and is the set being overguided and crouding the canine. As trappnman says, "improper visuals" may be the culprit. Personally, I would not use a visual that wasn't entirely natural. I don't believe in the necessity of egg shells, bird feathers, rabbit fur, etc., not to mention that it would be illegal in some states anyway. I have found these last two suggestions to be a much more minor factor than the first three in avoidance, stand-backs, walk-bys, set-circleing and run-offs. Just my opinion through yeras of observation and dealing with trappers and their problems on a daily basis. My suggestions above have helped many a trapper start harvesting large numbers on the first day the sets are out. Ace
 

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A Lenon's lure testimonial.......sort of. :

T-man, I reread my post and may have been misleading. I was trying to back up the old Fox's observations...coyotes can smell a wee bit of a "thing" as is evidenced by a really old set even under snow.

I don't get, don't think I get, alot of first night refusals with my "workhorse lures". I have had noticeable refusals with a few, really loud lures. I first noticed this particular trend at open cat sets. For cats I often, frequently, use loud lures; read, really skunky. Maybe superstition or a carry over from my mentor and others. In any case, the cats don't seem to mind. At some "cat locations" I, for what ever reason (greed?) decide I might get a chance at a coyote and would leave the set open, flagged, and lured for a cat (something skunky). In hind site I think I was sorta stupid; A trait I can't seem to shake completely. The coyotes that came by really didn't like the sets and I of course jumped to the conclusion it was the hanging rib bone flag. Well, many open cat sets later, it was both the flag and the loud lure that shyd these high desert yotes.

Just this year I tried a new, to me, loud lure at flat sets and holes for yotes and as-plain-as-the-nose-on-my-face the coyotes circled at a distance or stopped way out, pranced and left. It seemed to me that I couldn't put little enough of this lure down to get a coyote!

One set, in particular, underscores my experience: It was a flat set at the juncture of two trails near the bottum of a deep arroyo. I lured it with the new lure. First check I had a 25 lbs Tom...the set was made on coyote sign; these are love hate situations for me. In any case, I left the sets in for seems like two weeks but maybe closer to three. Coyotes came by a number of times and went out of their way to leave the trail as it approached the set. A full seven weeks after the set was made and 4 or 5 after I had pulled the trap I went back out of curiosity. My lure stick was still there as were 3 (based on age) sets of coyote tracks all of which probably would have put the critter on the stretcher. I picked up the lure stick and could just make out the tell tale odor of the lure which was now, to my nose, just barely skunky with this unique, how should I say, after taste; and no I did'nt lick it.

My conclusion is that these coyotes just get spooky around lots of skunk. Also, if the lure maker would make a "mild" version of this mxture (maybe just the hint of skunk; sweet skunk), I'd bet these coyotes would go right up and get caught.

On the basis of both the reports of many experienced trappers (including your own) and my observations this type of reponse seems to be a function of either, local, temperature, or season or some combination. In no way should a lure which preforms like this be labled inferior on these types of observations alone.

I just reread your last post and would have to say my observations, excluding those just mentioned, are in line with yours. I contend the differences in our observations are nothing more than MN and NM.

Oh, for those who are interested, I now make at least two sets if I'm greedy and want both the coyote and cat. If I flag a cat set I try my best to keep it visually distant from a set made for coyotes and I refraim from using a skunky lure; maybe a new superstition of mine!
 

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A Lenon's lure testimonial.......sort of. :

I agree with a lot of what both of you say- with a couple of differences that are very apparent between my coyotes and yours.

1) Human scent seems to make no difference. My wife comes with me frequently, and she always comes to the set area both on remakes and on new sets. I never noticed any avoideance because of this in and out routine. Is it daily- in some cases yes- Some locations have a coyote or an incidental darn near every day. I also with the dnr had from 1-3 people come along- and again, at each set they were there.

I believe, for me in my area, that normal human scent at the set from running a line is not much of a concern. I also kept track last year if there was any noticiple difference in next day catches at sets made after 1:00 or before. I noticed no difference.

I believe that dailt tinkering with a set unless needed isn't the best approach.

2) Concerning lure amount and lure odors. I have proven it to my own satisfaction that my tewo loudest, skunkiest lures work in all season and all wether. Wil lthey work on all coyotes in all temps? Of course not- but I was catching and collaring coyotes throughout April, May and June (temps were in the mid 90s most of that June, 2002) and using my two best lures- both loud skunky call lures- but with of course other ingriedients added. A good nose can smell several distinct ingreidents in the odor of the lures- but the skunk is there in force. In fact- XLDC was formulated as a sub zero martin/fisher lure.

But I am not doubting that skunk lures don't work in hot weather for you- l take your workd for that- but am just pointing out that mine do.

3) Concerning amount of lure- I am a firm believer in using enough lure so that the set is good for a week or so. So all my sets are lured with a good shot of lure. As I pointed out- I don't have lure refusals even from 1/10 of an oz, or about 15-20 drops. I believe 1 oz of lure wil lattra ct the coyote as well as 5 drops. The only resaon I lure more is so I don't have to relure after every mist or every 3-4 days. We will have to agree to disagree on that- because again, I see the results. So it is either the lures I use or the coyotes I have.
 
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