Graybeard Outdoors banner

1 - 20 of 76 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
356 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I have lots of time right now so thought I'd share this even though I'll get hit with flames n flack. If it helps one of you its worth it.

3 of us hunted Oregon near the Nevada border a few years ago. One partner tasked with scouting over the summer, he didn't do it. The other had a GPS, I had no idea it was a first generation without maps. A week prior to opener we scouted an area for a day-ran into a guide who explained where the border was in relation to our maps. You could see a fence in the distance, not much there, not even signs. No need hunt near it, we'd stay in the hills if we came back. We moved on. Opener, we came back to this area as it was the only place we saw "one" deer earlier. Opening afternoon we sat on a water hole. Guy approached on an ATV, asked if we knew where the border was. I pointed East, South, and off West...when I turned back around the guy was looking due North. ?!? He had no rifle....I thought he was State Police (but why not checking licenses) or was birddogging us. He said "I'm scouting for Nevada mule deer"...I said "that's nice you're in Oregon". His eyes got big and he left. ?!?!

Next day, we came back to this area. Non-hunter buddy and I ran into a buck a midday, I drop him (26"+ spread I might add). Radio the other guys, they show up at the kill with the guy from the previous day and another guy, no rifles.... They look like cops, but aren't acting like it....I've got the deer tagged, and while I'm not looking, one partner hands my rifle to one of the strangers- he puts it out of my reach. I'm the only one not packing a pistol.... as I go to gut the deer, the older stranger pulls a S& W auto and starts screaming "FREEZE"!!! I figure I'm about to witness the Clantons vs. the Earps at close range....my buddies, all cops, to my utter amazement did nothing ( and I am DAMN glad they didn't, this time). The young one stands there with his eyes wide, while the old guy, trigger on the finger, gun shaking, is threatening to shoot my two partners who have rifles slung.... I start asking this guy who the **** he is...what does he want...finally, he says he's a state game warden. I responded thats nice but you've got that gun pointed at 4 cops who are all armed, you'd better produce a badge and ID or its gonna be on. Finally after a lot of coaxing, the old guy takes his jacket off...showing a uniform shirt. Up to this point, no badge, no uniform, not jack squat, just a gun not even a verbal ID until asked.

They finally ID themselves. Ultimately, they produce a GPS showing (by their calculations) we are about 3/4 mile into Nevada. We discuss the fact the fences don't line up accordingly, nothing is posted, and where we thought the border was. We also discuss WHY the night before, I wasn't ticketed nor stopped as according to them I was in Nevada then. "We wanted to see how many poachers were in on this". Then, "we're taking your guns, equipment, and probably your vehicles". :eek:

They cited the other two hunters for no license, hunting closed season, said they would INDICT ME, and took all the guns. They said they had 48 hours to get the trucks--couldn't leave us stranded. At one point, younger guy took me aside and quietly asked if I really didn't know we were in Nevada...I explained to him why I thought we were still in Oregon in detail. They refused to go talk to the guide (a mile away at his camp and had to drive right by him when leaving), and said they'd posted this area a week earlier but that hunters had torn the signs down---uh, NO, I don't think so, we were HERE a week earlier and nothing.

This got ugly. Essentially we went back to camp, made "preparations" in case Charlie came in the night for our trucks. Next day broke camp, advised local law enforcement of what happened, and they assisted us in locking up our stuff so they wouldn't come get it. We went South, got an attorney.........case was going away, fast. It stunk to high heaven, especially when the DA found out that they didn't stop this thing the day prior and we could produce a licensed guide that had essentially mis-spoke. Then, the story changed. I, according to them, pointed out and admitted I knew I was in Nevada on opening day to the undercover guy.....ya, RIGHT. I'm standing there in blaze orange telling a stranger I'm in another state....?!? Also said one of us told them we had been military trained in the use of a GPS....uh, NO, that never happened.

According to the maps, its tough to tell, but I was just over the line opening day...by mere feet. The other two guys, well, on day 2 when it all went down, they NEVER were in Nevada when hunting, their ancient GPS proved it when later compared to a topo map, but the DA after hearing the addtl fabrications wouldn't look at the GPS.

The only way this would go away was to either go in front of a JP (we'd lose), then appeal to a regular county court with attorney's fees adding up.....OR they'd accept a civil fine. I said great, let's do the fine. I offered serious $$$ to the Nevada Mule Deer Foundation....NO, the game wardens want the revenue, FULL FINES. They let the deer get killed, they get the money....

Lessons learned: we can afford nice rifles, scopes, etc., BUY a GPS with a map program. Don't trust details to others----this was the most disturbing thing about all this on a personal level. I had no time to scout, and trusted it to someone else who did not do it. Big mistake. I also learned a lot about attorneys---- I'm convinced we didn't find the right guy as this case could have been won...but at what cost. And as far as the wardens go.......well, my rifle was perfectly clean prior to the trip. Fired 3 rounds into the deer. When we got our guns back, it took me 2 hours to clean it!!! Stock scratched and dinged up. As I told their bosses " I was wrong, my partners were not wrong, I would not have been where I was if I had known better, BUT WHY ARE YOUR GUYS LYING ABOUT THIS?" Especially since ITS ON TAPE...they secretly taped everything and are on record saying they thought the whole thing was "just a big mistake", and that the last gate you go through to get where this happened, well, they'd just been leaving it "open". How nice. They also recorded themselves making disconcerting statements about the Oregon State Police (?!?!) and how they like to "bag them" as well.....and took credit for an OSP who turned himself in when he screwed up years ago in a similar situation (they hooked him and booked him, yes, HE called THEM). Of course our OSP friends have been made aware of these issues.

FINAL CONSIDERATION: Let's say we had a 6th party member, a hunter. Member #6 of the party, unseen, stops 300 yards out from the kill..."holy crap, that old coot is stealing my friends deer..." No badge, no uniform showing, just a guy pointing a gun at 4 cops...BANG. Then look where we'd be. I told this to the DA and his boss, and said they need to deal with these two yahoos. When I laid it out they said nothing.....I think they knew I was right.

This is a set up, a honey hole. They are taking advantage of a little spot that's confusing if you don't have a GPS. That's why they drive 5 hours from Reno to do this....they want your TRUCKS, your GUNS, and your money. If they didn't they'd really POST IT and/or say something to you. If you aren't being careful they will have no problem "doing" you like they "did" us. By the way, there are no "offenses" in Nevada, just misdemeanors and felonies......and the fines, well, that hollow sound you are hearing is my wallet.



Had time on my hands and thought I'd share...be safe, be careful.

RR
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,359 Posts
A MUST READ..How an entire hunting party ne

Rogue Ram,

Years ago, I was cited for hunting out of season. The season ended the day before. I thought it ended the day after I was hunting. While I thought I should be given a break, I wasn't. I was hunting out of season and it is my fault for not being more careful. It comes down to personal responsibility.

I had three friends that were deacons of the church. They were so excited on the night before season opened that they drove around with a flashlight checking for game. They were stopped and as they had a rifle in the truck, they were cited for jacklighting and hunting out of season. They paid a hefty fine and learned a lesson.

You were hunting in an area where you weren't sure what state you were in. You relied on a person who said he was a guide, and you didn't ask the stranger the day before the opener if he knew where you were at.

Sure, there are sneaky and nervous game wardens, and they aren't always the Dudly Do-Rights of the fish and game set. But they can't do anything unless they believe a violation exists.

And with the money Nevada gets from gambling taxes, the Nevada fish and game does not need your vehicle or fine. The fine is set by other than the fish and game and imposed by a judge.

I was working one night when a game warden reported that he was shot. He was shot accidently in the thigh by a kid that was poaching ducks. He bled out before he could get to his car. I'm sure his family would like to speak for him if they knew what you wrote.

Thus, I say to you - GET OVER IT - you screwed up. The fish and game might not have been the brightest or most honest, but if you had been as careful as you should have been, you wouldn't have been there to get arrested.

C F
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,214 Posts
A MUST READ..How an entire hunting party ne

It is your responsibility to make sure you are abiding the law,if you had you never would of had this problem,when you break their laws they have the right to throw the book at you,im sure they didnt appreciate four cops from another state trying to tell them how to run their operation.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,461 Posts
A MUST READ..How an entire hunting party ne

Knowing what the game laws are and where you are hunting is your responsibility. Ignorance of the law(s) is never an excuse, just ask any judge. “crow_feather” is right about getting over it. It could have cost you much more or ended up a lot worse. Lawdog
:toast:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
289 Posts
A MUST READ..How an entire hunting party ne

Rogue Ram,
You are not a complete idiot, don't listen to them. Stuff happens. What might have been doesn't matter. Oops you made a mistake. Thank you for telling us about it. It could help save us from something like it happening to us. I hope that ALL you lawmen get to understand the repercussions of lying about what occurred. Somebodys world gets messed up and thier respect for the law and lawmen suffers.
Elwood
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,214 Posts
A MUST READ..How an entire hunting party ne

I would think a group of grown men who consider themselves enforcers of the law would understand they were doing thier job since they WERE breaking the law and in the wrong, stinks when you are on the other side of the law huh?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,301 Posts
A MUST READ..How an entire hunting party ne

Nonya, it REALLY stinks when you are dealing with dishonest lawmen, whether you are in the right or not! The point here is not the these guys were in violation of the law, that was admitted. The foul, putrid part of it is that the Nevada game officials used their position to play dirty. That's ALWAYS worse than a bunch of guys breaking hunting laws. You just flat can't GET any more putrid than dishonest law enforcement.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,214 Posts
A MUST READ..How an entire hunting party ne

Thats the way they do things in Nevada,my cousins husband and his brother bolth lost brand new $10,000 dirt bikes when they were caught riding in a protected area,it was set to protect some endagered plants,on top of that they had to pay $1200 fines!Neither of them knew it was a protected area and all the signshad been shot off,didnt matter,nevada law enforcement people love to confiscate and colect fines.you dont want to get in trouble there!If they got away with only a fine they should count themselves lucky as they didnt loose thier rifles or vehicles,they would have lost bolth here in MT.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,359 Posts
A MUST READ..How an entire hunting party ne

From now on, I'm taking a skateboard huntin and I'm gonna shoot my deer with a slingshot.

C F
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
289 Posts
A MUST READ..How an entire hunting party ne

NO !!! Rogue Ram,
You did good by teaching us a lesson in what can and does happen. Alot of people read this post and agreed with you but people who agree are not as motivated to reply as a disenter.

Elwood
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,359 Posts
A MUST READ..How an entire hunting party ne

It is a story worth telling. It just seemed that the story was told not to warn others, but to show how sneaky, and mean fish and game wardens can be. It also seemed that it was everyone elses fault except the writer's. I must have read it wrong.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
40 Posts
A MUST READ..How an entire hunting party ne

If a buisness or corporation acted in this way to further it's interests it would be be considered unethical and laws would be enacted to ban the tactics described. People go to jail for lying.

I am no lawyer but the word "fraud" came to my mind when reading this story.

It seems like there is no code of ethics required in law enforcement when something like this is done.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,359 Posts
A MUST READ..How an entire hunting party ne

If a business or corporation based it's decisions on only one side of a story, it wouldn't be a business or corporation long.

C F
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
398 Posts
Dscretion

Being in law enforcement for over 23 years, with over six years of undercover work, it appears that these wardens don't know the meaning of DISCRETION[/color]. Discretion, as defined is freedom to act and think as one wishes, usually within legal limits. By golly, if somebody doesn't realize there in another state, then it should be the responsibility of the warden to point this out to the hunter so that he doesn't make a mistake by hunting in an area where he shouldn't be.

Everybody has a job to do, and its not just to arrest or issue tickets to these people. Most people know right from wrong, and all make mistakes from time to time. If I stop somebody for speeding, its an open road and no speed limit signs and they are going 60-mph in a 40-mph, I make them aware of this. I honestly can't justify writing a ticket for this violation if there is not a speed limit sign posted for several miles. Now, before everybody tries to jump on the band wagon about this, I'm not saying the person is driving 80 or 90, then they should know better, because there is no place that I know of in the US that has speed limits that high.

Okay, I've said my piece, now I've got to get back to work. I do have about 130 open cases on my desk where these people should have known its against the law to break into somebody's home and steal.

:money:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,359 Posts
A MUST READ..How an entire hunting party ne

Being in law enforcement for 34 years, 18 as a line supervisor, I found that when a person was convicted of a crime, he usually stated that the cops always did something dirty and underhanded and he was just minding his own business while helping a little old lady accross the street.

Maybe those officers were as Rogue Ram said, maybe they weren't. I would never lay blame on a person putting his life on the line defending the law, without at least hearing his side of the story.

If I was behind 130 cases, I wouldn't be messing around reading Greybeard.

C F
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
356 Posts
Discussion Starter #16
A MUST READ..How an entire hunting party ne

For anyone having skepticism keep in mind I didn't have to post ANY of it, and I sure could have left what might seem to some as embarrassing issues out of the story. However, I didn't. That's because I want to convey the gravity and the seriousness of what is going on down in that area.

Do a google search of the newsletter called "The Oregon Observer" and check out what they've written about NDOW. The paper is kinda different but interesting about their take on NDOW.

Crowfeather, I'm simply warning people, and yes, I am not happy about the way I was treated. I've been in the game long enough to have woked on the East and West coast, I've seen coworkers go to jail for fraud, other officers set up rookies and get them fired while on probation because they wouldn't take a flashlight to a loudmouth (cuffed) prisoner ("you ain't one of us if you don't), and in the earlier days worked with guys that came to work pickled. I'm gave up being naive many years ago so its not a far stretch to see game wardens taking advantage of a situation like this.

Again, I've said I was wrong till I'm blue in the face, but I don't think I'm several thousand dollars and a trashed rifle wrong. I'd have taken the ticket when first contacted and been chagrined but happy to have had it rather than to be allowed to shoot a deer illegally then charged for it.

The message is to "be careful, there are those that will take advantage of you if you aren't", and I'm sorry to say, cops are included.

Be safe, be careful. I want a GPS for Christmas.

RR

:D
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
398 Posts
ok

Well, here we do get a couple of breaks a day, and an hour for lunch. But hey, what can I say......And the post time was before 8:00 a.m., and I took a half a day vacation to check on the grandbabies....And if I read it correctly, everybody involved in this were in law enforcement. Correct me if I'm wrong....
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,359 Posts
A MUST READ..How an entire hunting party ne

I already did


C F
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
665 Posts
A MUST READ..How an entire hunting party ne

I have been a Conservation Officer for 25 years, five of which were in supervisory capacity.

Based on what I've read here, I'm with Muzzleblast on this one. However, after serving as the District Court Liason for many years, I have become acutely aware that there are always 3 sides to every story. Hopefully, a defendant can get a fair and impartial judge, jury or other adjudicator to analyze the facts in any given case.[/b]
 
1 - 20 of 76 Posts
Top