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I believe in God, I believe he exists, and I pray I will enter his kingdom come my time. Now here is my question.

Although I don't go to church regularly and although I haven't read the Bible and although I maybe don't make it a point to pray to him every night, will I go to **** because of this?

I have believed in God all of my life. I have had enough experience with death and the dying to find faith in Him. When I do go to church (Christmas, Easter, date of my grandfather's death) I always leave changed for the better. I have wondered this all of my life. I hopefully will start attending church on the 10th of July (first avaliable day out of a busy week) and hope to continue with it until I die. Any words of wisdom are welcome and appreciated. Thank you. :D
 

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JPSaxMan, Im not really sure how to best answer your question, but I'll try this way: I have known some people in my life that as far as I know never set foot inside a church building. These folks are/were some of the best neighbors you will ever find. Some of them read their Bibles every day, some I don't think ever read from one. They just did what was "right".
I will not set myself up as judge and say they won't make it to heaven. The truth is that everyone goes to heaven when they die. Their spirit goes directly back to the Father which gave it. Some will be on one side of that gulf mentioned in the Bible (Lazarus and the rich man), and some on the other side. Those who have "made it" will be able during the millennium to go to and help their kinsfolk who were on the "wrong" side of that gulf. They will know the truth at that time and will be taught a little discipline and such. Then Satan will be released "for a short season" to tempt and test them once again. If they, knowing the truth, once again fall for his line then they are to perish with him. If they overcome his temptation then they are truly "overcomers" and will be singing Father's praises in heaven forever. I know this is not what is taught in most churches today but I assure you what I have said is the truth.
 

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A question for all of you educators on the

JPSaxMan:
"A question for all of you educators on the word of God."
:-D :-D :-D :-D
You're kidding right?
T'ain't no eddjamkaters here. Just a few people that think they know the "truth", whatever that is.
Be careful in your quest. Each denomination will tell you they have found THE way to heaven, and take steps to avoid "****".

They mean well, as in intentions are good, however intentions are irrelevant.
I've been to several churches, Catholic, (very pretty) Jehovah's Witnesses, (very austere) Baptist (even studied to be a lay minister), Church of Christ,( hundreds with that name, all different) attended a very strict Christain University ( B.S. Human Resources) etc.
Ain't none of 'em right. Not one.
Some are closer than others.
2000 years of tradition born of man and political influence has tainted the Church(church as in organization/not people).
Don't worry too much about going to ****. Ain't no such place. :-D
Not in the sense of Dante's Inferno.
Oh, oh. I'm in deep doo-doo now, huh? :evil:
I see the makings of a sharp debate thanks to your most wonderful questions.(thanks for that)
Now we will see if Christians can behave according to thier dogma.
:D :D [/code]
 

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A question for all of you educators on the

You funny guy jeager :) :-D

gwhilikerz, I really like your description. Then again I might really like with the reassurance of not going right to ****. :grin: :D
 

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JPSaxMan said:
You funny guy jeager :) :-D

gwhilikerz, I really like your description. Then again I might really like with the reassurance of not going right to ****. :grin: :D
:-D Thanks. I try hard. :-D
Humor cuts through a lot of the zealousness of the rightious minded, well meaning, brothers that honestly believe they espouse the 'truth', whatever THAT is.
:eek:
Anyway, the truth you seek is there for you.
I don't speak as though I have answers, only many questions.
I do think I have been blessed, (read lucky, hard work, or whatever) and have gathered a nugget of 'truth'.
Let me explain that much of 'religion' is based on FEELINGS and feelings ain't facts.
Sooooooooooooooooooooo, what inquiring minds must do is seek out what facts there are, and there are few indeed, and then base the developement of FAITH, (an elusive ethereal substance akin to feleings) on what facts you can uncover.
It ain't easy, after all, it's been only TWO THOUSAND YEARS since Christ walked the earth.
If you really want to define what the 'truth' is about spiritual matters then do the research youself.
There are those that can point you in the right direction (s) but ultimately the findings and your 'faith' is a matter of personal choice.
Be careful of those preach they have all the answers, it's all in the Bible, (who's Bible?) and the Bible is the inerrant word of God.
It just might be, and it might not be.
My reading and studies indicate it ain't.
Innerant that is.
However there are truths. There are sufficient facts to base a faith upon.
You will find none of these in any church I've ever been too.
You will find 2000 years of superstitious traditions, conflict, and errors.
But then what do I know?
Dang, my Karma ran over my dogma! :-D
 

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The question must be JP. have you been born again?
this is written to whom it may concern and no one in particular..if you think it's wrong talk to God, i never wrote it i only quote it.. :)

1There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews:

2The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.

3Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

4Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?

5Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

6That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

7Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

8The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

9Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be?

10Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?

11Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness.

12If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?

13And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

14And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:

15That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

16For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

17For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

18He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

19And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

20For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.

21But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God. John 3:1-21 KJV.


to enter into God's heaven you must be born again..going to church will not save you..praying will not save you..believing in itself will not save you..you must hear the gospel believe the gospel, repent of your sins and ask forgiveness of your sins and committ your life to jesus as your Lord and Saviour..

1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;

2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.

3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

5 And that he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve:

6 After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep.

7 After that, he was seen of James; then of all the apostles.

8 And last of all he was seen of me also, as of one born out of due time.

9 For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.

10 But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me.

11 Therefore whether it were I or they, so we preach, and so ye believed. 1 Corinthians 15:1-11

that is the gospel-

9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. Romans 9:9-10


when the born again believer dies the bible says we go to present with the Lord in heaven..

6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:

7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight:)

8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord. 2 corinthians 5:6-8

when the lost man dies the Bible says they go to ****..

42And whosoever shall offend one of these little ones that believe in me, it is better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he were cast into the sea.

43And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into ****, into the fire that never shall be quenched:

44Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

45And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into ****, into the fire that never shall be quenched:

46Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

47And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into **** fire:

48Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
Mark 9:42-48

now there will be those that will tell you that there is no ****, some call it ghenna, some call it hades and i don't know what else but i will tell you there is a place of everlasting torment for the lost and once they die in their sins there is no hope in all eternity for their salvation..

The bible mentions **** in 17 books and Jesus taught twice as much on **** as He did on heaven..If need be i can show you dozens of verses on ****, what it's like, who will go there and why..
 

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A question for all of you educators on the

How do I commit my life to Jesus our Saviour? And will committing my life be one route out of ****? That is what I fear; **** and I will do everything in my power NOT to go there!
 

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JPSaxMan said:
How do I commit my life to Jesus our Saviour? And will committing my life be one route out of ****? That is what I fear; **** and I will do everything in my power NOT to go there!
Now that is a reasonable request. If there is a **** I don't want to go there either.
Pick up a Bible and start reading it.(study would have been a better word)
I can share what I believe, but these are only my beliefs.
There is a god, for want of a better word, and there are better words.
He sent Jesus to rescue mankind from the "wages of sin".
Salvation comes by accepting Jesus as your personal saviour.
There are others here who can give better explainations of how this salvation thing works, and others still that will argue the true path to salvation.
Apparently there is disagreement on the necessity of baptism.
I strive to improve my conscious contact with God as I understand Him through prayer and meditation, asking of Him, His will for me, not my will.
But then I always get me in the way.
Human don'cha'know.
Of all the creation myths out there, and there are many, I believe the one described in our Bible has the most validity.
You might start with Genesis.
Keep an open mind.
And heart.
 

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A question for all of you educators on the

I'll start there! :grin:
 

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JP says:
How do I commit my life to Jesus our Saviour? And will committing my life be one route out of ****? That is what I fear; **** and I will do everything in my power NOT to go there!

there is only one way to heaven..Jesus said in John 14:6,
"I am the way, the truth, and the life, no man cometh unto the Father but by me."

if you will reread my previous post i said how how one can be saved and committ their life to Jesus..you must be born again...please if you have any questions ask..
 

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A question for all of you educators on the

Yes, how am I born again? Through what means? :?
 

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When you hear or read the gospel which i posted..and then if you believe it, that Jesus came to this earth and was born of a virgin, lived a sinless life, suffered and died on the cross, arose from the grave and ascended into heaven where He is today, then and repent of your sins and ask God to forgive you and ask Jesus to come into your life and save you..i promise you He will..that's what is called being born again..and then be baptized.
 

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Well tha Gospel part is down. Believed that since day one and will never be swayed! I'll work on the rest...being baptized most likely not long after I start going to church! :D

Don't ya'll feel good to know that you're saving at least one in this world? :grin:
 

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motor was quoting from John chapter 3 about the discussion between Nicodemus and Jesus Christ. Jesus was explaining to him that we must be "born again". Unfortunately this has been misinterpreted by a scribe somewhere down the line. What Jesus said according to the manuscripts is "you must be born from above" (check born again in the Greek). He was simply saying that no man can go to heaven except he first leave heaven, be born of woman from that sac of water in the womb, born in the flesh, then die in the flesh and return to heaven. That is the way God set the process up and Jesus was trying to explain this to Nicodemus. It is a truly hard concept to understand but it is something we all need to know.
To put it as simply as I can: We were in heaven with the Father, yes angels. When Satan rebelled and caused one-third of God's children(angels) to fall and follow him instead of our Father, God destroyed this world. Then He rebuiolt the world so we could live here in the flesh. His plan is for each "angel" to come to earth by being born a babe in the flesh. Then we grow, learn, and decide who we follow. Our flesh body will someday die and go back to dust. But our spirit and soul goes back to the Father. We either "made the grade" here on earth or we still have more "learning" to to. I hope I have made sense as this is not easy to put in just a few words.
 

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I've been born again too. Not yet dunked. I speak a littel different language than most and am not bound by superstition.
Not saying anyone here is!
Take it easy all. :eek:
 

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gwhilikerz, don't think I've ever heard that concept before. At least not expressed in that manner. For sure it doesn't meet my personal version of reality. Not to say I'm anymore right or wrong than you in your concept of it.

I just do not believe there to be any such direct connection between humans and angels. Two totally different beings created by the same GOD. One will never be the other. That's my view at least. That's what my reading of the Bible tells me.
 

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gwhilikerz:
Consider youself challenged to back up with reference where you came up with one of the strangest concepts I've heard of yet.
"Unfortunately this has been misinterpreted by a scribe somewhere down the line. What Jesus said according to the manuscripts is "you must be born from above."
Says who and what is your source?

"We were in heaven with the Father, yes angels. When Satan rebelled and caused one-third of God's children(angels) to fall and follow him instead of our Father, God destroyed this world. Then He rebuiolt the world so we could live here in the flesh."
Once again where does this bit of myth come from?

Do you understand that you are saying that WE humans are fallen angels, that God destroyed the World (WHY?) then rebuilt it again so these fallen angels could be us and we'd live on earth to do better than we did as angels before the angels fell?

That makes absolutely NO SENSE AT ALL.
I think you should site researchable sources for you ascertions or I will have to conclude that your version of reality does not match mine.
Not trying to be rude but your statements are pretty far out of the realm of standard Christian philosophy and found in no Bible I've read to date.
Help me out here with some source material please.
 

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I said it was a hard concept to grasp especially since it goes against what most churches teach. But it is what i believe, maybe i need to work on my explanation a little.
Graybeard, no problem. We are all free to believe what we want. I certainly wasn't trying to push any doctrine down anyone's throat, just trying to answer a question.
jeager I don't consider myself "challenged". I'm not out to get into any sort of contest. But I will try to answer the points you brought up.

1. (Unfortunately this has been misinterpreted by a scribe somewhere down the line. What Jesus said according to the manuscripts is "you must be born from above."
Says who and what is your source? )
My source is just about any Greek dictionary. Look for the word that was translated "again" and you will see that it is "anothen" (if you have a Strong's Concordance it is #509 in the Greek Dictionary.) It means from above; by anal. from the first. by impl. anew:-from above, again, from the beginning (very first), the top. It comes from the word #507 "ano" which means upward or on top: - above, brim, high,up.
It is no big deal therfore to say we must be born from above.
2. I didn't say we were "fallen angels". I said we were angels, some were decieved by satan(1/3) and some were loyal to our Father (I personally think about 20%). The rest didn't want to get involved in the conflict (much like today). God sentenced satan to perish for his rebellion. That sentence has yet to be carried out because God would have to destroy at least 1/3 of his children along with satan. And what about those who didn't care one way or the other? How would HE judge them? Now nobody wants to kill their kids, so God conceived the plan whereby we would all be born as babies with no memory of what had happened. Then we would be be able to make our minds up about who to follow. (guess you could say we got a fresh start).
3. you said "That makes absolutely NO SENSE AT ALL.
I think you should site researchable sources for you ascertions or I will have to conclude that your version of reality does not match mine.
Not trying to be rude but your statements are pretty far out of the realm of standard Christian philosophy and found in no Bible I've read to date.
Help me out here with some source material please."
What i have said is in just about every Bible I have ever read. You just need to understand what you read to find it. Ask God and He will show you. Of course my statements are not what "Christian philosophy" says. Or should I say "what man says"? That is what is being taught for the most part today, sayings and traditions of men.

MichaelP I'm not Mormon and know very little about what they do/don't believe.
 

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gwhilikerz said:
MichaelP I'm not Mormon and know very little about what they do/don't believe.
Sorry about that. The reason I thought it was Mormon is this.

Gwillikersz you wrote:

"When Satan rebelled and caused one-third of God's children(angels) to fall and follow him instead of our Father, God destroyed this world. "

The third sentence in the Mormon link I gave says this:

"The devil is the enemy of righteousness and of those who seek to do the will of God. Literally a spirit son of God, he was at one time “an angel” in authority in the presence of God; however, he rebelled in the premortal life, at which time he persuaded a third of the spirit children of the Father to rebel with him, in opposition to the plan of salvation championed by Jehovah (Jesus Christ).

Bold mine for illustrative purposes.

Mike
 
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