[PJ]

Well not good went shooting today and here are the groups.
150gr Hornady SP
58grs IMR4350
@50yrds four shot group 1.7"

150gr Hornady SP
59grs IMR4350
@50yrds four shot group 3.7"

165gr Gameking
57grs IMR4350
@50yrds four shot group 1.9"

I am sooo spiting mad that this barrel just wont shoot worth a crap.

 

[223Larry]

06

I Would try Partial neck sizeing and seating the bullets out 10 thous off the lands. then free float the front forend hanger.Check out the Barrel crown. Some times It's something simple.Had a 30 herrett that would only shoot good with the bullets seated out.Don't give up.

 

[KYODE]

well PJ.....

it ought to do better than that for sure. i partial sized my 7-08's and i don't recommend it. they are a little too tight to open and close on. is that the only powder you've tried? 4350 is a slow powder and may not want to work in your pistol. sometimes it may work but sometimes it may not either. try a faster burning powder like H4895. check some burn rate charts and see where they rank from fastest to slowest. looking at the older hornady 4th edition in front of me they show-H4895 with 150grsp c.o.l. 3.230"
45.1gr minimum
48.7gr maximum
win 748 is also a faster powder but i've never used it. i believe the powder and bullet are the two biggest influence's on a load, but thats just my opinion. in comparing groups with different powders i have noticed major differences in group patterns. i say try a faster powder and see what happens.
how are you seating your bullets also? i get my overall length by comparing two measurements.
first take a cleaning rod and put down the barrel to the breechface. mark the rod with a fine felt tip pen. remove the rod and insert a bullet only into the chamber. hold it in with a pencil eraser. reinsert the rod till it contacts the bullet. mark it again with the felt tip. measure between the marks to get your overall loaded length.
second method to compare too- insert bullet only again into the chamber. take your dial calipers and hold them with the small end flush on the barrel over the chamber. let the small slide go down into the chamber till it contacts the base of the bullet. read your dials reading and add that measurement to the length of a measured bullet. this will also give you your c.o.l.
compare the two measurements and they should be very close. this will put the bullet out touching the lands and may help accuracy. you can also seat a few thousandths deeper if that doesn't work.
if the powder change and overall length doesn't do what you want then try a different bullet. like maybe a nosler bt.
i hope this helps, and you may know this stuff already, but i thought it may help. hang in there and have faith. KYODE 8)

 

[Graybeard]

Nope PJ it is not asking too much to expect much better results and for sure TC would agree with that.

Having said that however I have to wonder if the barrel is really at fault here. The reason I say this is it is really hard for a barrel to be that inaccurate on it's own. Such inaccuracy is usually the result of something like defective scope, loose base or rings, bad crown maybe or a bedding problem.

Before I wasted anymore time on load development I'd begin ruling out those things one at a time. If it were me I think I'd start by analyzing the groups. Do you get two together and one spaced widely? If so, look to bedding that fore end or getting either even pressure on both sides or free floating it. If groups are just all over the place I'd skip the fore end and move to the scope/base/rings.

Since nothing will shoot if the base isn't really tight I'd begin there. What kinda base is it? On a 6.5 TCU VVCG barrel I had it shot about like that when using a Weaver 92A base because the barrel was tapered and the base was unsupported out front. A VVCG steel base fixed that. If there is any part of the front of the base unsupported it must be made of steel for sure and better yet also have epoxy under it. Be careful with that as it is almost a permanent thing once you use epoxy. Made sure each and every screw tightens fully and doesn't bottom out. Do this by using only one screw at a time in the hole you plan to use it in. Put it in and tighten. Try to move the base. Movement means it bottomed and didn't tighten. Do each in turn one at a time and then use them in the same holes you tried them in. Before you can make anything else work that base has to be TIGHT. Any movement will ruin accuracy just as it seems to be ruined in your barrel.

Next put the rings on and tighten then without the scope. Now try to move the rings. Will they move? If so, not good. That means they aren't really tight and can be moving under that much recoil. Yeah been there done that one too and yes it will cause exactly what you are experiencing. If those rings are now locked in tight and don't move then it is time to begin checking out the scope.

Unless you are using Burris Signature rings lap them. Yes it really does matter. Now insert the scope and tighten it down in place. Use the same scope you have been using.

Now use a known good load. Usually a good factory load is best but any reload that gave good consistent low standard deviations is OK. Make sure your technique is sound. I know you can do that because of the groups from the 7-30. Now what did those groups look like? Good, bad or indifferent? Try two or maybe three loads and use only three shot groups. If all are still bad it is time to change scopes to one you KNOW beyond all shadow of a doubt is working right.

Now shoot it again with the known good scope mounted using same loads. Any better? If not time to begin looking elsewhere. First check the crown. If it is that bad you should be able to see something obvious. Of course I'd have already looked for that long ago and likely ruled it out.

If at this point the groups are still like you've been seeing I'd try shooting with a partner. Have the partner load it behind your back and had it to you. Have him put in a shell some times and not some times. You must rule out flinching. This is a quantum leap in recoil from that 7-30 and flinching will also do exactly what is happening. Now have your shooting partner shoot it also. Is it still shooting bad for both of you and have you ruled out flinching?

Then pack that sucker up and return it to TC explaining what you've done to rule out everything but a bad barrel. When you get the new barrel from TC enjoy.

GB

 

[PJ]

Ok, I have looked at all my four shot groups and MAN do I feel stupid. Every target has two bullet holes within 1/2" of each other high but center the other two shots are low and 1/2" to the right of center and are 1/2" to 1" low from center.If its a forearm problem how do I fix it I have one of the rubber ones ? Could I shot it without a forearm to see if that helps?

 

[KYODE]

i don't think you could rest it without the forearm. the barrel would still be on the rest or bags with a major influence on groups. graybeard gave me a good idea on somewhat floating the forearm. i did it on my contender and encore. it's cheap, easy and a great idea i thought. although i havn't looked closely at the rubber forearm, mine are walnut. just fold 5-7 layers of black electrical tape and place it in two places under the barrel near the mounting screws. it keeps the barrel off the forearm and only touches at the points where the folded tape is. i am not satisfied until i can get less than 1 1/2" groups at 100 yards and would prefer 1" or less, especially with the smaller calibers. i measure my groups center to center.

 

[Paladin]

pj

you might try letting the barrel cool between each shot, I've seen a lot of barrels change POI as the barrel heats up


GOOD LUCK

 

[Graybeard]

With the rubber fore end I think fixing poor fit is gonna be much harder. Not sure it can be free floated as it s really very soft and spongy now. While I think their new rubber grips are pretty good I think that rubber fore end stinks. Rynite would be a vast improvement. I've seen some comments from folks saying such existed early in production. I've never actually seen one for the Encore. The rubber fore end is too soft and spongy to glass bed I think.

Nope don't think I'd try it with the fore end off. I have and got really lousy accuracy.

One other thing that comes to mind is placement of the gun on the bags. With the rubber fore end I think this is even more important than with any other for the Encore. Get the front rest back as near the frame/trigger guard as possible and make sure you do it every time the same way. That should help. Gettintg a wood or better yet a Rynite IF you can find one fore end and free floating it is a still better option.

Based on what you are now saying about your groups I'm pretty sure the barrel is not the problem. The fore end very well maybe. It really is the single biggest weakness in the Encore in my opinion.

GB

 

[Billy Marr]

PJ What I have done

in the past to free float a forend is to put a washer in between the mounting lugs and forend that way when you screw it on it puts a space between the baerrel and forend. Another thing I have done is to just use one of the screws so as not to put uneven pressure on the barrel.

 

[PJ]

Thank's guy's.......I like the '06 in the handgun I will keep at it and mess around with the forearm and see if I can find an older one that is not so soft.The best load so far is 58grs IMR4350 and a 150gr Hornady SP #3031 I will stay with this load and see if I can make the groups shrink.

Thank's to every one of you guy's
PJ :grin: