I am looking for ammo to shoot through my new 300WIN mag. Something with a bullet wieght between 150 and 165 grains. Accuracy and good ballistics are the only other requirements. The flatter shooting the better. Thanks
There is a huge selection you can choose from. In order to give you a good recommendation, you need to tell us what you will be shooting. Unfortunately, all you indicate is accurate and flat shooting with weights of 150 to 165.
I can give you some GENERAL recommendations. First, as for accuracy, it depends more on the rifle than the actual ammo. The same ammo in one 300 WM may shoot 1/2" groups, while in another 300 WM of same make and model shoot 2" groups.
Thatnotwithstanding, I like Hornady 165 grain Interlock Boat-Tails, I would also look at the new BONDED SST. Sierra Boat-tails and Nosler Ballistic Tips are also generally very accurate and flat shooting bullets, but tend to blow-up more so than premium, stout bullets like Trophy Bonded, Barnes X, Nosler partition, Fail Safes, etc.
As such, keep this in mind, you may be interested in flat shooting and accurate rounds, but with a 300 WM, you need to also consider that regular bullets will generally blow-up at closer ranges due to the higher velocities. Accordingly, you need to be consider balancing your desires with some realties. I would say that a great all-around, and generally accurate, although perhaps not as generally accurate as the ballistic tips, is the Nosler Partitions. This is a time-tested bullet that has a decent BC and excellent, predictable performance.
What do you mean by "blow up" at close ranges. I am new to this rifle thing. Also the main game animals I will be hunting are whitetails and black bear. These are for what I want the 150-165 grain bullet for. There is a very good possibility that I will have close up shots, maybe as close as 10 yards! You never know. When I go elk or moose hunting I will go to a larger bullet. Thanks
What he means by "blow up" at close ranges is true. It goes against normal opinion about "magnum" rounds, but most bullets actually penatrate less at the higher velocities. Even most of the premiums out of a 300 mag will penatrate less then the same out of a 30.06 because of the higher velocities. This may not be true with the barnes x bullet, but it generally leaves a smaller wound channel even though it penatrates deep, you decide which is better. And standard bullets tend to fragment and break apart at the higher velocities. Basicly, the higher the velocitiy, the faster the bullet will mushroom, which is why you should only use a controlled expansion bullet on game. If you are using it for deer or blackbear with 165's (which some prefer over 150's for long range) any premium such as nosler partition, swift a frame, speer grand slam, or barnes x bullets will give more reliable performance than standard bullets. I use the partition for everything in my 30.06, and 7 and 300 mags that i used to have.
Don't worry about being new to this. In any event, by "blow-up," I mean that the bullets essentially break up into several tiny pieces of metal and lead and thus does not penetrate. Think of it this way. If you take a 1 pound rock and throw it at a window, it will penetrate and break the window. If, however, you take a 1 pound ball of sand and throw it at the window with the same speed, the sand ball will break up into thousands of pieces and not break the glass.
Now, certain bullets are made to expand, and not blow up, at certain velocities. For example, if you shoot a 180 grain Remington Core-Lockt in 30-06 at 100 yards at a whitetail through the ribs, the bullet will expand very quickly, but still retain it's mushroom, and thus most of it's weight, and penetrate. However, if you use THAT SAME BULLET in a .300 Win. Mag. at the SAME DISTANCE on the SAME ANIMAL, then the bullet, since it is going much faster, will expand VIOLENTLY and break up into tiny pieces like the sandball example.
Now, certain bullets, of same weight, are constructed differently. Ballistic tips can expand VERY quickly and do not retain their weight as well as other bullets, like Trophy Bonded, etc - which retain about 95% of their weight.
Whitetail deer are very easy to penetrate (much more so than an elk or moose) - so you don't necessarily need a stout bullet, but if you shoot a fast gun like a 300 WM, then you nonetheless still need a stouter bullet, especially if you will be shooting at closer ranges - ESPECIALLY 10 YARDS!
If you shoot a 180 grain ballistic tip at a deer at 10 YARDS from a 300 WM, then I'll bet you that the bullet would never penetrate and blow-up at impact - thus penetrating only a few inches or so.
Black bear are heavier animals with thicker skin, muscles, and especially bone.
Your best bet is the Nosler Partition or new Hornady BONDED SST (if they offer it in a 165 grain. Anything bigger is too much for whitetail, any less is too little for a black bear.
Just so you know, the Partition has two cores. If the first part blows-up, it still has the rear ward core intact to penetrate.
It appears that you had your post slip in shortly before I had mine done. I think this is great because there is a great amount of interest and activity in the question. This happens every once and a while, but, in any event, I think that both of us said the same thing, maybe just in different ways.
I have been looking at Hornady's "custom" 165gr. boattail softpoint bullets. Any opinions on these? I don't plan on shooting anything that close, it just seems to happen while I am hunting with my shotgun so i figure it will with my rifle too. The only time I get far shots its with my bow and I can't take them. :roll: Thanks for all the info so far.
Yes, I made reference to Hornady's 165 boat-tails, they are the interlocks. In addition, the SSTs, I believe, may also be available in the 165 weight as well.
The Interlock's, and regular non-bonded SSTs, are have a bit more stoutness than the regular conventional bullets, but not much more. As such, you can use it on whitetail deer, even as close as 75 yards or so with the 300.
However, given that you will also be using your gun on black bear, and even if you use it on whitetails, your best compromise is the Nosler Partition. I just don't know if it is factory loaded with the 165 grainer. (I know that it is with the 180s).
Since you are new to this, I bet you are probably just looking at the Manufacturer's charts and graphs. What I'm about to tell you is something that you probably will not fully realize, appreciate, or even understand, until you hunt and shoot for several years: DON'T PUT ALL YOUR FULL FAITH AND CREDIT INTO FT. LB. ENERGY NUMBERS.
I used to be just like you. I looked at all of the numbers and settled on a 7mm Rem Mag because I heard that "It was the most accurate, and flattest shooting rifle out there." When I got it, it kicked like heck, and it was too much power for deer within 200 yards. I still kept it, but I bought a 270 Winchester instead.
In any event, you really need to stick to stouter bullets, even more than the Interlocks. Now, Hornady will soon be coming out with a Bonded SST bullet. If they have in their factory ammo, and it's in 165 grains, THAT'S the bullet that I would use in MY 300 Win. Mag. (I currently use 180 grain Barnes X).
I just went to Hornady's website at www.hornady.com. Go there and click on the Interbond bullet. It says that it will be available in March, and it will be available in a 30 caliber with 165 grains. I don't know if just the bullets will be available, or if the factory ammo will be available. Just wait a month and let's see.
Again, in the meantime, try and focus on the Nosler Partition and, like I said, don't just focus on the numbers. Real world experience will show you things somewhat in a different perspective. :wink:
Thanks for all the info. Your right I have been looking a charts. The ones in the back of guns&ammo magazine. These nosler partitions, are they the ones that are being made by winchester? Being ignorant to this all, I havent actually seen the brand "nosler", but Found winchester makes a "nosler partition" bullet.Thanks again.
Terry according to these ballistic charts here the difference between a 30-06 165 and a 300 Win mag 165 is only about 2-2.5" at 300 yrds, most people can't hold a rifle still enough on a bench to see that difference. I did not check that with a ballistic calculator but believe it is close. So don't believe that the 300 is like holding a bag of magic. With that I have shot several deer over 300 yrds and one, yep only one, at a little over 400, but for every round I shot at a deer I put hundreds in paper. I actually owned that gun for a year before I took it hunting, I wasn't satisfied with the accuracy. So by the time I got it shoot .5" consistently I was very comfortable with the recoil and knew all about the flight of my bullets.
Oh, practice doesn't make perfect, practice makes permanent. Perfect practice makes perfect.
people make such a big deal out of "flat shooting magnums" when in reality there isnt as much difference as most think. Sure you get more drop with the 06 then the 300 mag, but once you are past 350 yards, you need to account for drop anyway, and whats the difference between accounting for 18" at 400 yards and 23" when you HAVE to adjust for it anyway?
Also i really question the shots over 300 yards anyway. Especially when you get out to 400+ if you are off on your range estimation by +/- 25 yards, you are gonna miss your target area. And dont forget that 10mph crosswind. And from field positions, how many of use can hit the vitals of a deer at 400 yards anyway? I know some people can, and do it regularly, but as much as i shoot, i know that is beyond my ability. Thye guys that have the ability to do this practice a LOT, much more than i do. Off a bench with a rangefinder i know i could do it confidently, but honestly my groups really open up when i shoot from field postitions.
I think that a lot of people dont really know as much as they think they do about ballistics, and are just plain lucky they killed the deer at "500 yards" (better know its 500 and not 490 or 510!), or they are just full of it. Like the guy i was talking to that told me about the 4point he killed at 500 yards with the flat shooting 30.06. A good BS check is to ask what the holdover was. He said he held a few inches over his back. Hmm 13 inches of drop with a 30.06 at 500 yards, guess i need a better 30.06!
Nosler partitions are made by a company called Nosler. You can go to their website nosler.com. However, companies like Winchester and Federal, for example, buy Nosler's Partition bullets and load them into their own factory ammo. You see, Nosler only makes bullets...Nosler does not make their own factory ammo.
The gun shop I ordered my gun from called me today and told me that there had been a screw up and that my gun wasent ordered yet. I told him that this was a blessing and to change my caliber over to the 30-06. I am glad this happenend because I was feeling that I had made a bad choice getting the 300win after reading my responses to this post. For once I got some luck. Anyways I now am looking at the hornady "light magnum" 165gr. BTSP for the 06. Any opinions?
You know what they say, "Opinions are like those anal orifices, everybody has one", so here's mine:
I shot the 162gr. BTSP Hornady Custom load in 7mm Rem Mag for several years. It performed adequately.
This year I tried the nosler ballistic tips. They performed poorly. I saw premature expansion and little penetration. We lost a deer because of this, absolutely NO blood trail.
Given that the Hornady BTSP is pretty much similar in construction to the Nosler Ballistic Tip, I have decided that I will go back to my old standby, the Nosler Partition for the future. It may not be the most accurate bullet, but the sucker always performs as advertised. You might have to trail a deer sometimes, but you will always have a blood trail to do it by.
Just for the fun of it, I am going to try a Barnes X also, but I have had problems getting them to shoot with any accuracy in some of my guns.
Terry - Either are fine choices ... you just have to pick your ammo accordingly. With the -06, any old 165gr bullet will work wonders on everything in the deer class. Step up to a 180gr bullet and go elk or moose hunting. With the 300WM, stay with 165gr premium bullets or 180gr "normal" bullets and it will work just fine.
I shot a 300WM for several years, mainly because I wanted something a little different than every other guy in the woods. First deer I shot with it was with a factory loaded 150gr Rem Core-Lokt. Mistake!! This bullet is way too fragile for this much velocity .. and the deer was only 70yds away. I switched to 180gr Ballistic Tips and they worked fine. Maybe still on the fragile side, but the buck I shot at 40yds didn't know that. Nice 1.5" exit hole ... no blowup whatsoever. And this was with a very near max load at 3000fps at the muzzle. After some more experimentation I found the 180gr Hornady SP flatbase bullet was even more accurate than the Nosler Ballistic Tips and I used those for several years.
Since you can see that the distances most of my deer are shot are WELL inside of 200yds, I have since switched to the 7mm-08 Rem. This little round is very accurate, came in a nice lightweight gun and has much milder recoil than the 300WM, which can be downright nasty in the recoil department. For this reason, I think you made the right decision ... especially since this is your first big game rifle. The 300WM really kicks and could easily turn you off from this sport all together if you're not ready for that kind of punishment.
Anyway, I think you made the right decision. Good luck ... Crayfish
Actually, I'm very glad to hear that you are getting the .30-06. It is a much more practical choice for your intended purposes. :grin:
The 150 Light Magnums are VERY accurate in my particular 30-06. (a Remington 700 BDL Stainless Synthetic). They shoot 1/2" groups at 100 yards. Now, these loads may shoot 1" or 2" or 3" groups in another .30-06, but in my gun, these are very accurate.
However, I have not shot the 165 grain LMs in my gun. So I can't tell you how accurate they are in my gun. Nonetheless, keep in mind that 30-06 LM loads are almost equal to .300 Win. Mag. loads. As such, if you don't need a 300 Win. Mag. for whitetails (and you rarely do), then you don't need 30-06 LM loads either.
Hornady has a regular loaded 165 grain Boat-tail in the .30-06 and it is almost perfect for whitetails. People will tell you that they prefer other types of bullets, and that's fine, but I just think that the .30-06 165 grain Interlock Boat-tail is just awesome!
Now, for Black bear, although you could use the same bullet, remember that I told you that you should use stouter bullets for black bear. As such, I would recommend, again, finding a 180 grain Nosler Partition (either in regular or Federal High Energy Loads), the 165 or 180 grain Barnes X bullets from PMC ammo (which I use), or 180 grain Trophy Bonded Bullets.
In this way, you can have one type of bullet for whitetails, and another type of bullet for black bear.
Thanks for all the help guys. My 06 will be here monday I can't wait. I think I have made a good choice with my new caliber selection. Maybe I will look at the 300's in the future. I did shoot a couple of them though, and recoil was not a problem for me. It might be because I have shot a shotgun a lot. Anyways thanks again. :grin:
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