Graybeard Outdoors banner

1 - 20 of 31 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
44,135 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Yup ! hard to believe, but some folks STILL don't get it...

They want to fight our own elected leaders..... and "cut & run" from the real enemy !

I think we better keep in mind..no matter how the next general election goes..we WILL have to fight these guys for a generation !

Get used to the idea...or get used to bowing and scraping to the Devil 5 times daily.... and dressing our wives & daughters in Birkas..

< www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=58616 >
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
23,845 Posts
ironglow we agree on much and we disagree on much. I don't know anyone whom wants to "cut and run" from the Muslim religious fanaticism of "kill the infidel" mentality, although I am sure there are some out side my circle. However, we have a very self-centered, sold out government, whom has literally lined their own pockets, and driven the working man in to the ground. They IGNORE our demands of closing our borders, expelling illegals, and their new policy of "nation building" and preemptive strikes on other countries for what they MIGHT do is obscene.
You do not have to back a corrupt government with out of control foreign policy, while we at home are stripped of our liberties, such as freedom of speech, and the 2nd amendment, along with documents such as the Patriot Act which GUT THE CONSTITUTION, to be a Patriot of these United States.
I love America and spent 20 years of my life upholding the laws and rights of others, as have my sons, nephews, and uncles, but our government has turned a deaf ear to our wishes, and believes that we are to serve them, rather than them serve us. There is no doubt that the Muslim religion is THE most dangerous religion ever devised by man and Satan, but the government you speak of PROTECTS THEIR RIGHT TO WORSHIP, and puts down the Christian for it's right to worship publicly. This government you speak of allows Muslims to take their religion into schools, and even TEACH their religion in schools, but we as Christians, cannot pray to Christ at a football game. Facts are facts brother. BTJMO
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
24,772 Posts
The Iman in the article probably is soothsaying,,,,but heck, with the help of the administration, congress, fund raising corporations (i.e. GOP and DNC), AND current policies (i.e. world intervention, entangling alliances, corporate government, open borders, global economy, free trade, etc.), ,, he might be right! :( :'(.
Personally, I don't think a marxist Islamic controlled work force would upset the corporate mind very much at all....it would be like having homegrown controllable immigrant labor born and raised right here..good for the bottom line.

..TM7
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
44,135 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
Dee;
I don't expect that anyone in your circle is of the cut & run persuasion. What I was talking about, are elected leaders who took office last fall and wanted to cut funds to the troops immediately ! It was a Senator, a former Presidential candidate who accused our troops of breaking into Iraqi houses and getting their jollies by "terrorizing" women and children.
A Congressman (former Marine) when faced with an accusation by terrorist families in Haditha of having unecessarily killed "innocent" civilians, while the Marines denied the charges. The Congressman preferred to believe the terrorist side...and called the Marines "cold blooded killers".

He also wanted to immediately "redeploy" our forces to Okinawa..of all places.. "redploy" is just another way of saying "cut & run"..

Dee; these young troops over there are our friends and neighbors..like your son and my grandson.. they are neither "terrorists" nor "cold blooded killers"

AS a law enforcement officer, i am sure you are aware that in certain neighborhoods here at home..if an officer has to shoot someone there is immediately an outcry of "police brutality"..how much more likely is the same in a terrorist neighborhood ? Still; that " former Marine" wouldn't give his fellow Marines the benefit of a doubt !

The Marines out to DIVORCE him !...LOL

In the Haditha case, the young Marines have been cleared of any wrongdoing...

I still have heard no apology from either of these shameless, opportunistic , false accusers....

I don't like a lot of things the Bush admin has done, but i honestly believe a gore or Kerry admin would have been far worse !

TM7;

How about laying off the accusations toward this or that person, this or that corporation or a thousand and one conspiracy theories..

Let's just consider the danger we face with radical Islam and how easy it is to attack an "open society"...

We must pull together to defeat this most diabolical enemy..not act like the idiots in Washington are at the present time..they just don't seem to "get it" !
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
23,845 Posts
ironglow, I don't disagree with you here, but the fact of the matter is; our soldiers ARE breaking into Iraqi homes and scaring the **** outa women and children. It is because our government ( and I start at the top in the oval office) has put them into a POLICE ACTION scenario, which is NOT what the military is for.
Many of the Iraqi men in Baghdad are dead, and there are THOUSANDS of widows and orphans. They are killing EACH OTHER, over TURF.
Our soldiers are going house to house kickin in doors huntin Sunies and Shiites, whom are shooting each other, and terrorizing each others families. Anyone from about 11 years old to 60, are considered potential combatants by these two factions, and our soldiers (my son included) are trying to keep them separated with little success.
My son just finished 22 months of deployment in Baghdad fighting house to house, and I believe he knows what he's talking about. They DO NOT want us there. They consider us interlopers, and occupiers.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
908 Posts
Why worry what some dude, who no one ever heard of, says on a website? I bet there are just as many websites that warn of a UFO takeover... :eek:

Jim
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
23,845 Posts
Now DakotaElkSlayer, you very well could have a valid point. ;)
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
26,113 Posts
They consider us interlopers, and occupiers.
Which is precisely what we are there.

We whupped ass and took names. We removed Saddam, messed up and let any and all WMD get out before going in and as a result will have to deal with any that were there at another time and place. We done all we have any right to do and need to get the **** out. If someone else becomes a threat to us then we can weight it and take action as needed but we have no further business in Iraq at this time. Should we at a later date find we need to return we should do so and deal with the specific threat and then get out.

We are doing far more harm than good there now. Every day we stay adds more radical US hating muslims to the war against us. Either kill them and leave or just leave. What we are doing now is stupid and not legal or appropriate and serves us more harm than good.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
44,135 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
My Marine grandson, just back from Iraq..paints a different picture. Perhaps the Shiite areas (Baghdad & environs) are different than Al Anbar Province, which contains Ramadi, Fallujah and of course, is the "Sunni Triangle".
His first deployment was combat every single day, house to house and sweeping things off with his .50 cal atop a Humvee as well a a bit of sniper & counter-sniper duty.
His second deployment, just finished, wasoff to a rough start the first couple weeks, but soon quieted down and he worked his MOS (armorer) from then on.

Gen Petraeus is perhaps, the world's foremost expert on counter-insurgency, and the "surge" seems to be working. Al Anbar, the largest province in Iraq (see map) is
so well ordered now, the Marines (Al Anbar is their assigned area) are looking to pull out most of their forces and head for Afghanistan.

Prime Minister Al Maliki said just yesterday, that most foreign terrorists have left Iraq in general and Baghdad in particular..and warned nearby countries to beware of these bad guys doing mischief in their domains.

Yes; there are some "home grown" terrorists left, but they will likely be rooted out soon. Reports are coming in from there that IEDs are down by 70% just the last month.

I admit, mistakes were made..particularly after the rapid fall of the Hussein regime; but I guess I don't understand some strongly held views.

If we don't fight these guys in their homelands, where do you suggest we fight them..in Detroit, Biloxi, Denver. Nebraska & Pennsylvania ?

We do know, don't we..that they MUST BE STOPPED..because they won't QUIT !

Please answer this question so I can understand better:

If you were President and had a majority in both houses..how would you go about defeating the terrorists militarily.

...And please, don't take the "political solution only" cop out, Bin Laden types would laugh, Clinton has already tried that !
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
24,772 Posts
TM7;

How about laying off the accusations toward this or that person, this or that corporation or a thousand and one conspiracy theories..

Let's just consider the danger we face with radical Islam and how easy it is to attack an "open society"...

We must pull together to defeat this most diabolical enemy..not act like the idiots in Washington are at the present time..they just don't seem to "get it" !
.
I'm not laying off anything whatsoever, and I'm not talking conspiracies, I'm talking facts in the face of your biases. As long as the 'oil war' and Palestinian situation continues so will the contentions with Islamicists continue as their religion supports and our policies support the conflict ad infinitum; and in your case your religion supports the conflict too. All I'm saying is if you want the world conflict to subside than there is work to do with policy....what we have been doing hasn't been working and has also led to the demise of our own country, and if you don't see that then there is no hope. As GB said we did what had to be done in Iracq and that's enough. Why don't you just come out and say you would like all Islamics exterminated, OR lay off the war party rhetoric?. BTW, wasn't October the worst American death casulty month in Iracq so far?

..TM7
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
26,113 Posts
Please answer this question so I can understand better:

If you were President and had a majority in both houses..how would you go about defeating the terrorists militarily.

...And please, don't take the "political solution only" cop out, Bin Laden types would laugh, Clinton has already tried that !
If I were President (something I clearly NEVER will be) and even if I had both house and senate under control by whatever party I might belong to I do not think that what needs done could be done. I think that only a single person in total control would be able to do what is needed.

But given total control to make all decisions and then to cause them to be implemented I believe that within 2-4 years I could completely turn things around and at the end of that time step down and return to retirement with this country back on a path that would last for a long long time before we were again back to where we are today.

I'd suspend Congress entirely for that period of time. I'd permanently remove many members so they could NEVER EVER again hold political office. I'd close our borders and severely restrict immigration into this country. I'd allow no muslims in PERIOD and would require any who wish to come here to become permanet residents to have a job prior to coming.

I'd give Mexico an ultimatum to keep their folks at home or I'd shoot them the first step the made onto US soil. I'd tell them and the other countries who primarily ship illegal drugs into this country to cease or that I'd scorch their earth where the drugs were being made/grown and then DO IT.

I'd remove China from "most favored nation status" and tell them to shape up their human rights policies or we'd stop ALL imports into the US from their country.

I'd give ALL muslim nations an ultimatum to cease any and all terrorist activities aimed at the US or face a scorched earth policy by the US. I'd nationalize all foreign owned facilities in the US and kick out the foreigners.

I'd stop handouts to all third world nations.

If I felt it necessary to go to war with any nation over the policy I'd pound it mercilessly from the air prior to any ground troops going in and then when we felt it time would send in the necessary ground troops to finish the mission which would be clearly defined in advance and when that mission was completed we'd walk away and say to them and the rest of the world don't mess with us again or you'll get the same. Not one red cent of US dollars would go to rebuild the area.

I'd return the entire nation to Constitutional Law exclusively by the end of my turn in power. I'd limit the terms of Congress to a MAXIMUM of six years for any person and provide a minimum salary while in office and no retirement or benefits after leaving office. Any and all funds obtained during the campaigns for office not used during the campaign would go into the General Fund and be used to pay off national debt.

I'd remove the illegal amendments to the Constitution passed right after the Civil war that were never properly and legally ratified. I'd clarify that the First and Second Amendments mean what they say and that any and all levels of government cannot in any way shape form or fashion limit the rights of US Citizens to own and carry any type of weapon or firearm they wish to own. That provision is in place to allow citizens to control our government by force if need be. I'd make sure government did NOT limit religious freedom as that's what the 1st is really about not stopping public exhibition of that freedom as it is now interpreted by judges.

I'd remove all firearms laws at all levels from this country. I'd remove the illegal personal income tax which has no legal basis for existence.

I'd have a SERIOUSLY tough policy on crime and illegal drugs. I'd see to it the punishment fit the crime and life in prison at taxpayer expense would be replaced by the death penalty. Trials would happen quickly and not be media spectacles. Swift and fair justice would mean swift and fair but punishment for crime would be severe. Prisons would not be social clubs and would be truly hard time and not a breeding ground for more hardened criminals. If you got out you WOULD NOT EVER want to return there.

I'd make sure our military was the most powerful in the world with the finest equipment money could buy and pay our military a proper salary for their efforts.

I'd fund alternate fuel research and search out new fuels and new energy sources to replace our dependence on foreign oil and more fully develop our own oil resources.

I'd end give away programs and honor the comittment to Social Security that is in place at the same time weaning future generations away from it and cause them to provide for their own retirement thru company retirement programs and savings plans.

By the end of my time in power I'd completely turn this country around so that the Federal government was smaller and involved ONLY in those things the Constitution says it should be into. I'd return most power to the states. I'd end spying on US citizens.

In the last year I'd reinstate elections at all levels to put new people in power at local, state and national levels. Once all were elected and ready to step in I'd walk away with no retirement for the time served and never again involve myself in politics.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,992 Posts
Ironglow I agree with you I posted on an other post about muzzies who want to take over America but then I have been saying that here all along due to their past history. I also feel that two soldiers fighting side by side can see things different (glass half empty half full ect ) and report back differently to us back home. I agree with your grandson I think we are doing some good things over there. Now Dee that is not knocking your son I thank him and Ironglows grandson and all that are serving our country. I also think even the Iraqi's all have different views so I think it depends on who they talk to. I also think that some soldiers who joined may be bitter because they signed up for other reasons and now got called to fight Uncle Sam called in his chip. Again Dee not saying that about your son since I do not know him. Just saying that as a general example as after 911 when we went to war I seen some of the local folks demonstrate on tv and when interviewed complained theiir kids signed up so they could go to school not war. Which in no way impressed me as the definition of a soldier is a warrior not a student.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
44,135 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
GB;
I agree with almost everything you say..you have the proper ideas. I would even go along with suspending Congress for a while..except of course, the President can't do that unless his name is Hugo Chavez...LOL

Your ideas concerning illegal aliens , China's "most favored nation" status, repeal of personal income tax, strengthening the military, reinstating the death penalty for certain crimes, establishing a sure-stop border ( I'd use a minefield between 2 fences) and all those are great ideas..

...But being realistic, almost everything you suggested would be screamed down by at least half the people (you know who) ..and the drive-by media would so poison your ideas, that enough of the "fence straddlers" would also go off on a tangent so as to destroy any hope for any worthwhile change.

I guess the loonie left is so strong and have enough "fellow travellers", that they can just about kill any ideas that make any kind of sense whatsoever !

Personally, in my 70+ years on this azure sphere, I have observed a nation that made common sense in it's laws and truly believed in honesty, integrity and decency..descend into a morass of degradation, lies and rebellion against anything noble.

I also can look back to a time in the early 60s, when people started to turn away from God and started to look toward liberalism as some kind of "savior' for mankind...

The contrast was so profound, I can almost point to a several month period when it started !

I honestly fear that we are nearly to the point that we cannot come back..without first enduring a severe CLEANSING from God..

.....And I am not so sure He is willing to allow us a cleansing !

JH45gun;

I certainly hope that my post in NO WAY reflected ill toward Dee's son ! On the contrary; Any man who is a Sgt in combat as a member of the 82nd Airborne is a WARRIOR in every sense of the word,

Yes; two different warriors can see things two different ways..especially if they are in two different areas of a country like Iraq. There are several reasons why The Baghdad area ( US Army responsibility) and Al Anbar Prov ( Marines responsibility) can contrast with each other :

1) Baghdad and environs are Shiite, as are Iran, Al Queda and the Taliban.

2) Al Anbar, to include such cities as Ramadi, Fallujah and others is Sunni ( the Sunni triangle goes from Ramadi to Tikrit to Baghdad and back to Ramadi..passing just south of and including Fallujah.

3) The Shiites have oil riches as do the Kurds in the north.

4) the Sunnis have no appreciable oil wells in their areas.

5) In elections, the Shiites have much more voting power.

You can see why some areas react differently than others, we can take hope from recent reports of large decreases in suicide bombings, IEDs and other acts of violence.

I honestly cannot see how we can hope to win the War on Terror if we let the terrorist organisations like Taliban, Al Queda and the Iranian regime have it their own way and be allowed to take over Iraq..and eventually, Afghanistan, and probably eventually Saudi Arabia and the rest of the Arab states..(the major oil producers in the world)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,992 Posts
No Ironglow I did not post that to imply you were I posted it so Dee would not think I was knocking his son since a lot of the time his views and mine differ. My warrior comment was not sent in his or your direction either but a General comment.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
168 Posts
I would like to quote Eric Hoffer, whose little book "the True Believer" contains a lot of good sense:

"We cannot hate those we despise."

"American are poor haters in international affairs because of their innate feeling of superiority over all foreigners."

"Should Americans begin to hate foreigners wholeheartedly, it will be an indication that they have lost confidence in their own way of life."

"It is obvious, therefore, that the influence of the fanatic is bound to be out of all proportion to his abilities. Both by converting and antagonizing, he shapes the world in his own image."

"Thus, though hatred is a convenient instrument for mobilizing a community for defense, it does not, in the long run, come cheap. We pay for it by losing all or many of the values we have set out to defend."

This is one of three books that can add a great deal of understanding to the world situation. The others are "The Haj" by Leon Uris and "The Prince" by Machiavelli.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
23,845 Posts
My son went into the army to be a Green Beret, not for college. He finished his Green Beret Sopsi training, and all he likes is his MOS, which was small arms. He was mustered into the 82nd, because of skills he had, and stayed with the intentions of returning to his GB outfit after deployment. That was three deployments ago, 1 in Afghanistan, and two in Iraq, with the last in Baghdad. He has fought all over Iraq, with everyone from (censored word), Sunies and the clowns in the north. The reaction day to day over the last year, is resentment from the Iraqi people. They want us to leave. They realize it will most likely go back to a dictatorship, but also realized it is better than occupation and perpetual war.
Anyone whom truly understands Islam, KNOWS that democracy is IMPOSSIBLE. Islam is a THEOCRACY, and everyone is not equal. It is an exercise in futility, and ignorance of the religion to believe otherwise. That is why there are no democracies in ANY Islamic country. He no longer intends to make a career of the Army, as he too sees our government has lost direction, and his family not only supports him, but we agree with him. We thank God that at least for now he is out of that mess, with hopes that his last 300 or so days in the military will be spent in the States. We support ALL U.S. troops and pray that some semblance of wisdom will return to D.C.

Oh yea, GB, I have been saying for about 15 years now, that what this country needs is a good HONEST dicatator for about 5 years, to clean D.C. up and run out all the freeloading lawyers, and carpetbaggers, and get back to the Constitution and Bill of Rights, so ya got my vote.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
7,574 Posts
Hopefully before it's to late the decent peoples of the world will realize that Islam is the enemy of all that is good and decent in the world. Whether we fight them here or fight them there we must fight them. 9/11wasn't a made up conspiracy it was only one of many attacks by muslims. The only problem I have with the current administration is that they are not spreading the war to all the muslims in the world. Islam is not a religion, it is a cult started by a pedophile dictator to keep himself in control. The koran is a dictators handbook on controlling people. The tyranical yoke of Islam is spreading and by doing nothing it will continue to spread till it cloaks the world in its vile cancer. Any and all muslims are evil, they are not your friends, they will lie to you to take you into their deceit.

I served in the first gulf war and my son and soon my daughter will be serving in this war. They know personally what islam is. Some peoples lives were personally effected on 9/11 I dought seriously any of them think islam is a peaceful religion. We cannot ignore the muslims anymore. If we do we will lose.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,992 Posts
Dee never said your kid did enlist for school like I said I do not know him or why he enlisted. I respect him for his service. I do know it ticks some folks off when I make the student comments but since we do have more than a few that enlisted for the school benifits then wound up in a war I am sure more than a few were not happy. So be it when you sigh on the dotted line you should realize that you may be called to fight.
 
1 - 20 of 31 Posts
Top