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Discussion Starter #1
What works, what doesn't?

Hodgdon data lists H4831 as producing the highest velocity at the lowest pressure in the top end.

I'm looking for lots of oommph from this little cartridge while maintaining accuracy, lock-up and extraction.

Thanks.
 

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IMR4350 shows less pressure at 48.5kcup, and slightly better velocity at 2556fps, that would be my choice if I wasn't concerned with staying with Extreme powders, for whatever they're worth. ;)

Tim
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Quick,

You are absolutely correct! Thanks for pointing that out to me. I obviously didn't study the data closely enough. Any idea how sensitive IMR4350 is to temperature extremes? It could well be a factor in my application.
 

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I dunno, haven't used either enough to know. Ya might load some up and take em to the range with you in a cooler to see what kind of velocity loss you get when they're cold. ;)

Tim
 

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H4831SC is a better powder for the Handi with a 175gr Nos. Part.
OAL 3.055, Seat depth .300, 53.9kpsi, 2545ft/mv 24" barrel, 50gr H4831 is slightly compressed.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Thanks Fred.

If I may be so bold, how did you come up with those numbers?

I'm pretty sure I'd never get a 3.055 OAL round to chamber in this 7mm-08 rifle. 50gr of H4831 is a grain over Hodgdon's published max of 49.0 which they list as compressed.

Is your data possibly for a 7x57 or .280? I don't see a 24" 7mm-08 in H&R's current offerings.
 

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I'd bet a Handi that Fred is using Quick Load for that data. ;) I'm into the lands at 2.825" with the 160gr NP!!

Tim
 

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They must have changed the throats on the Handi's. My data is Ok and it is
not for the7x57. The further you shove a bullet into a case the less volume
you have. OAL. 2.800is the standard for magazine rifles in 7mm-08, but not
for single shots. I have two Rugers #1 and #3 where you can't reach the
lands with even the longest bullet.

So if you into the lands then you need to reduce my charge. 49.0gr by Hodgdon with that powder is dependant on OAL. Even with 50gr in my load
with OAL of 3.055 you still way under the 60.1ksi design by 6.0ksi.

When I used to shoot a 7mm-08AI I lengthened the mag box so I could load
OAL 3.100. I also used up the extra availabe neck length and made brass
from 30-06 to get a longer neck. That made a big differenve in load density.

With this powder you simply can't get enough powder into the case, with any load you should apply a 5% compression with this powder and heavy bullets. Lighter bullets will even be less pressure and may drasticly effect the burn percentage and a faster powder maybe much better.

Just remember that each load is designed with the available case volume, once you change the OAL you are changing the availabel case volume. OAL
is one of the most critical parameters in hand loading. The loads in your loading book spell out the OAL and that is the lenght the load was designed for, its all about available case volume, which includes the variation of different makes of brass.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Thanks for clarifying that for me, Fred.

Like Quick, I'm into the lands anywhere from 2.824" to 2.832" depending on which bullet I pull from the package for measurement. I'll try the H4831SC and probably IMR4350 too. I'd like to get some Rem brass & primers to match Hodgdon's data, but neither are available locally.

This project is gonna make for some cold days at the range. :-\
 

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not to change the subject but why do you want to shoot 175's in a 7mm-08??? when i had mine it loved 140's iand they killed just about everything
 

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When you use an OAL of 2.824 with a 175gr Nos.Part bullet the H 4831 is not very suitable since the usable case volume is drastically reduced.


H4350, Varget, H414 or H380 are much better suited powders. Just load according to Hodgdon recommendations and keep the pressure down.
 

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ahh yes the oommph!!! i forgot all about it. i still think the 140's had enough oommph to kill everything a 7mm-08 was made to kill. but i guess if he must have more oommph he needs to use a more oommphier bullet like the 175, (i guess)
 

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Discussion Starter #14
FWIW,

I'm looking for a 7mm-08 round that will push a tough, heavy bullet hard enough to expand and keep on truckin' after impacting a fairly substantial stationary target up to 125 yards away. I must comply with a 150gr minimum bullet weight regulation in an environment where odds are about even that air temp will be at or below zero. Minute of softball accuracy would be sufficient, but less than ideal.

150 & 160gr bullets would comply with the regs but may not penetrate as far. Maybe too, I'm full of it. 170 maybe overkill. The last elk I shot with a 160 Partition from a 7mm-08 lifted her front legs off the ground before tipping her over. I muffed the shot, smashing a humerus on the way in. The bullet did not exit.

To let the cat out of the bag, my daughter (12) has a very good chance of being issued a cow/calf bison tag here in MT for the first three weeks of January. She is number 11 in line for one of up to 18 tags that may be issued. She and I would prefer she use her own rifle. It's the one she knows. We have standing offers to loan her a .264 Win mag, a .300 Win mag and a 375 H&H, none of which would fit her. I'm also willing to cut down one of my larger rifles if necessary.

I know 7mm-08 is a bit light for this application, but I also believe it can accomplish the task Handily. ;D Unlike bulls, cows generally don't go over 1100lbs and I'm advocating she take a yearling.
 

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well i think you might be asking a lot out of little lucky seven (the name i had for my 7mm-08) and i really think the 160's will work for yu better.

the 175's are only going to give you like 75 more ft. lbs. then the 160's and if its for your 12 year old daughter to use i have a feeling your trying to stay away from recoil and IMHO 160 are about as far as you want to go if you have recoil in mind, i shot 168 matchkings in mine for a while and with 41.0 grains of varget pushing it recoil wasn't bad but you still knew you where firing something . put the 160's in the boiler room of just about anything and your little girl will have meat on the table .


good hunting how ever you go i wish your daughter luck
 

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What a neat opportunity (and wonderful boon to the freezer!). Don't know the slightest thing about tipping over bison-bull, cow, yearling or othewise...but if maximizing penetration with a "smaller" cartridge is the goal, might something in the Barnes TSX line be something to consider?
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Mitchell,

Thank your for your insightful comments. The 160 may well be a more rational option. Frankly, I'm not too thrilled about the amount of case capacity lost to the 175. Shot placement will be key in either case.

I'm not too concerned about recoil, to a certain extent. She shot a lot of trap this summer and put 65 140s through her rifle during a match a few weeks ago. She's pretty recoil tolerant.

PaterC,

I suspect the TSX is worth considering. I have zero experience with Barnes bullets and not much time to experiment. I have only read about them and that they are longer than lead core bullets and must be seated extra deep for use in short throated Handis, thus reducing case capacity. I will read up on them some more.


Thanks again everyone for your input.
 

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MtGlass..i find your thread interesting..i see what your trying to do..i wonder..if the 175's would stabilize...i'm going to start loading for my 280 handi..probably not till next spring..& am pondering a bullet choice..like you i would prefer something a "tad" on the heavy side..i will probably go with a 160..partition..a friend of mine hasn't had much luck getting anything over a 140 grainer to shoot well in his 7mm/08 bolt rifle..of course everybody's rifle's may have different bullet preference's...please keep us posted..
 

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I have used the NPT in 25 caliber on deer and they worked fine but I have stopped using them because the tips are so fragile. I thought Nosler came out with a variant that has the brass come right flush covering the soft tip, but I have not seen them in Canada. For a single shot of course nose fragility is not really an issue, so long as you carry them in a box or something, not loose in your pocket.

Mc
 

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The protected point Partition .308" 180gr still has an exposed lead tip, it just has less lead exposed. It's unlike the .451" and .458" protected points that have jacket all the way to the tip of the bullet. Norma and Woodleigh offer a bunch of protected point bullets.

Tim

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