Graybeard Outdoors banner

1 - 11 of 11 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
116 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I just finished putting together a T/C Encore with a custom Hart heavy barrel in 7-08. I expect (hope :grin: ) this combination to be a great shooter and I need to decide on a quality scope, preferably in silver to match the SS receiver/barrel but it is not an absolute necessity. This is a heavy setup so scope weight will be a factor, and although I would like a longer eye relief, I think perhaps it should not be a factor due to the caliber and weight of the gun.

The choices I have been considering are Bushnell 4200 2.5-10x40 in silver vs. Nikon Monarch 3.3-10x44 AO in matte black. Both are quality scopes and I think I can’t go wrong on either one but wanted to get your opinion.

Most of the shooting that I do is within 100yds with an occasional shot to 200yds.

Couple of basic questions: for those of you that have AO scopes on your hunting guns, how do you like them? Also if you have experience with both scopes, which one do you prefer?

Thanks a bunch.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
10,748 Posts
Out of over 25 scopes, I don't have one with AO. I prefer scopes without it. Also consider a Leupold scope, either a 2X7X33 or a 3X9X40. :D
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,717 Posts
With scopes with magnifications of over 10x, an AO is essential. Scopes with max magnifications of 10x or under generally do not need an AO, and the benefit of that is that I don't have to mess with if a split second opportunity comes up in the field - i.e. it is set at 100 yards, yet an animal is at 175 yards and chasing a doe and stops for only 2 to 4 seconds (plenty of time to get a good shot, but not enough if you have to mess around with the AO).

Zachary[/color]
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
116 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
Zachary, Doesn’t an AO scope function the same as non AO by setting it at 100yds for hunting situations and also has the added option of adjusting it during target shooting sessions?

Redhawk, I have noticed that you are partial to Leo’s (to put it mildly :grin: ) and I suspect you know more about them than most other members on this forum. I personally have never bought a Leo and also haven’t looked through the new VX-III’s but I hear they are very good, I just don’t understand what do I get for the extra money that I don’t get w. Elite/Monarch. I don’t want to start another Leo vs. Nikon vs. Bushnell debate but I like to better understand it advantages.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,717 Posts
hobbyist said:
I don’t want to start another Leo vs. Nikon vs. Bushnell debate but I like to better understand it advantages.
A Leupold is like a Cadillac - it's a good car - just overpriced. I drove a BMW 545i and I got sticker shock when I saw the $65k price tag. When I drove it, I understood why. When I drove the Mercedes E500, I wasn't as shocked to see its $68k price tag, but when I drove it, I thought of it as an overpriced Cadillac. I bought the BMW 545i.

In terms of scopes and cars, let's have a little fun.

The Leupold is like a Cadillac - American made, but over priced.
The Elite 4200 and Nikon Monarch are like Toyotas and Hondas- Japanese made, and the best value on the market.

The BMW? There's no scope like a BMW!! :-D :) :-D

Zachary :) [/color]
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
10,748 Posts
hobbyist said:
Zachary, Doesn’t an AO scope function the same as non AO by setting it at 100yds for hunting situations and also has the added option of adjusting it during target shooting sessions?

Redhawk, I have noticed that you are partial to Leo’s (to put it mildly :grin: ) and I suspect you know more about them than most other members on this forum. I personally have never bought a Leo and also haven’t looked through the new VX-III’s but I hear they are very good, I just don’t understand what do I get for the extra money that I don’t get w. Elite/Monarch. I don’t want to start another Leo vs. Nikon vs. Bushnell debate but I like to better understand it advantages.
Zachary said it real good. But also it is just my personal preference. I have had nothing but good experiences with Leupold. When you find something that works and works good , you stick with it. If you like other scopes, that is cool with me, but I won't buy them. :D
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
116 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
Zackary great example. I appreciate the parallel.

I have been driving a 7 series since 1990 (and you know what I am talking about darling :-D – I just dated myself :idea3: ) and am retiring the last one this year. In my older days I am switching to Merc. I guess I am getting soft (happens to all of us) and also I don't like the new BMW body styles. So does that mean, I should buy a Leo now :shock: ? VX-III 2.5-8x36 or 3.5-10x40 perhaps?

All joking aside, I have had a Monarch for about five years now and a Bushnell (pre 4200) for over 25 years and I truly like the Monarch. My other scopes are Burris rifle and handguns scopes and I don’t much care for them. Going back to the basic question, which one is more important, AO or FOV, I think perhaps FOV (=Elite 4200) but my gut says go with the Monarch which comes with the AO.

AO or wider FOV?
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
5,973 Posts
hobbyist

(1) Are you thinking about a higher powered scope with P.A. for some shots over 200 yards? You stated 100 yards with ocassional 200 Yards.
Looking at a Buck 200 yards away with a 10X scope makes him look to
be 20 yards away.
(2) Will you be Target shooting from time to time or load testing until you
find your ultimate load? On some guns that I only big game hunt with I
like to mount a high powered scope with P.A. until my accuracy work is
done & then mount a 3X9 type Scope for hunting from then on & checking
zero before hunting.
(3) Are you shooting Varmits? If not & your shooting is no more than 200 yards I don't understand the need for PA or more than a 3X9 or 3X10 tops. I use PA or higher power scopes only on Varmit/Target rifles or rifles
that I hunt with for longer shots.
If you are not doing the things that I asked about in the first part of 1,2&3
then I would do like Redhawk said and use the medium powered variables.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,717 Posts
hobbyist said:
... which one is more important, AO or FOV...

AO or wider FOV?
Perhaps I'm missing something here...

AO is adjustable objective - the feature at the end of the front of the scope that adjusts a scope's parallax at various yardage distances. Some scopes have this feature some don't. Usually, scopes over 10x have an AO.

FOV is field of view - not a feature, but a measure standard in all scopes, whether they have an AO or not. FOV is the distance from left to right (or top to botton) in feet at a certain distance and magnification. For example, at 10x, a particular scope may have a field of view of 12 feet across. At 8x, it might be about 19 feet.

Asking if FOV is more important is more analogous to if Eye relief is more important. Usually, in the relm of optics, and generally speaking, the wider the FOV, the shorter the eye relief. Conversly, the narrower the FOV, the longer the eye relief. Some people prefer wider a wider FOV. Others, such as myself, prefer longer eye relief.

However, I have never heard anyone ask whether an AO or FOV is more important. The AO has nothing to do with the FOV. I would also believe that 2 identical scopes - one with an AO and one without an AO, would have similar FOVs.

If an answer must be made as to which is more important, AO or FOV, the answer is the generally the same as if asking the AO vs. Eye relief question - it all depends on your shooting and personal preference. The only difference is that scopes over 10x should have an AO. As far as the FOV answer, it all depends on your shooting. Will you be hunting in close quarters and with higer magnifications where you need a very wide FOV so that you don't accidentally shoot another animal that was walking in front of the first animal you were about to shoot in the cross-hairs? or will you be shooting at longer distances at lower magnificaions where, even scopes with narrow FOVs will have such a wide FOV at that distance that you could cover a whole city block? :)

Zachary[/color]
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
26,058 Posts
AO or wider FOV?
As Zach has stated this is not a normal question one would expect to hear asked as the two have pretty much nothing to do with each other. But to more directly answer it let's say this.

It depends on the use to which you'll put the rifle. As I understand it that is hunting. For hunting use with the 7-08 I would NEVER put on a scope with enough magnification to need an AO or other means of parallax adjustment. So that wouldn't even be a consideration. Mine wears a Bushnell Elite 3200 2-7 and my wife's a Bushnell Elite 4200 1.5-6. I can't imagine ever putting more than a 3-9 on one.

On a hunting rifle I want as much FOV as I can get as I'm a woods hunter and shoot game under 50 yards more often than over. So if you want a direct answer mine is FOV.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
116 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
Everyone, Sorry it took me a little while to get back to the forum.

I appreciate the responses but truly this was not meant as a normal and basic question. To me it is a question of comparing two scopes with different specs. One offers AO and narrower FOV due to higher magnification at lowest setting and the other wider FOV due to lower magnification and no AO. Under normal circumstances the simple answer is look at your application and pick the right scope. Using Zachary’s analogy, do you need a quick car or do you need a roomy car? If you want QUICK buy a sports car and if you need ROOMY buy a minivan. But life is not usually black and white and in this case it is not either. I am looking for a quick, roomy , reliable and luxury car at a reasonable price :-D . Maybe that’s too much to ask, but I expect a discussion like this would perhaps narrow my requirements if it is too unreasonable.

Typically when you try to optimize to multiple variables it becomes a question of not getting the absolute best in any one of your requirement categories but finding a solution that meets some of your requirements in each category. To the purist that is not acceptable and to others it called a compromise. In Zachary’s case he got a luxury, quick (relatively), roomy (relatively), and dependable (relatively) car that is better than the Hondas and Toyotas in meeting his requirements but paid much more for it. Had he gone for the S500, he would have got a larger, as luxurious, but softer suspension and less sporty car even at a higher price. BTW, I agree with your choice Zachary :D .

To me everyone saw the dots but did not connect them. I think it was my fault for not posing my question more clearly. However here it is:

1. Clearly this is not just a every day deer-hunting rifle. You won’t need a high-end custom barrel just for deer hunting. You may want it but don’t need it. Given the cost of the blank and custom conversion to fit the barrel to the receiver exceed most decent basic hunting rifles. In addition practically any modern rifle/scope combination these days shoots minute of deer accuracy so finding a quality scope that will accomplish this is not an issue. For deer hunting purposes Graybeard and Redhawk are right on the money, a 2-7 or a 2.5-8 works the best. I.e. if I want a roomy vehicle I should buy a minivan or a large sedan that is a good value.
2. My objective has been to put together the most accurate and flexible rifle/scope combination (within the constraints of using an Encore receiver) that can be used for Deer/varmint Hunting as well as target shooting. I don’t foresee using his gun for competition but yet who knows. It depends on how it/I will shoot. So when it comes to the scope riding on top of it, theoretically I would need a 1-30AO scope at a reasonable price. Wishful thinking, as couple of minor laws of physics makes it impractical to manufacture today.
3. Now as to the AO vs. FOV: Clearly the Elite 4200 2.5-10x40AO and Monarch 3.3-10x44 are very similar in quality yet offer different specifications. They both offer similar weight, length, eye relief, and objective lens size (for my purposes) yet they are different in two major areas. 4200 has a 35% wider FOV due to lower magnification (and maybe the design as well) making it much more useful for close quarters hunting and Monarch has a narrower FOV but offers AO making it more user friendly during those longer shooting sessions and perhaps lends itself to more precision shooting for application de jour.

So maybe the better question should have been:

If you are choosing a scope for a multi purpose Deer/Varmint and target-shooting rifle, which scope would you choose? Hunters, If you have a mid power AO scope on your hunting rifle how do you like it? Is it helpful or is it a hindrance? and target shooters, if you don’t have an AO scope on your target rifle how do you like it? Which of the two scopes offers the best compromise?

Now, if this was a purely objective question, the answer would be: do you intend to hunt more or shoot at the range more, but it is not, as I think Zachary proved it by buying a BMW and not an Acura as I think Acura’s are cheaper and offer a lot of the same qualities :-D (sorry on picking on you – I do have the highest regard for your analytical capability and knowledge moderating the Optics Discussions).

So don’t hold back, I would like to hear your success as well as your horror stories when it comes to the above question

Thanks a bunch :D .

Mike
 
1 - 11 of 11 Posts
Top