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Are bolt actions still considered more accurate than pumps, levers and semi-autos? Just wonderin.
Are bolt actions still more accurate than . . .
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Are bolt actions still more accurate than .
I'm sure that there are always exceptions, but the general rule is that the Bolt Action are the most accurate designs out there.
Let's put it this way - have you ever seen pumps or semi-autos at bench comeptitions? :grin:
Zachary
I'm sure that there are always exceptions, but the general rule is that the Bolt Action are the most accurate designs out there.
Let's put it this way - have you ever seen pumps or semi-autos at bench comeptitions? :grin:
Zachary
Are bolt actions still more accurate than .
I have to think, w/o going full bore custom, an Armalite in .308 would give any .308 bolt gun a good run for the money, and I know My Rock River AR in .223 will outshoot any of the varmint guns my buddies or I own. Couldn't believe it when I got it... all the time working loads and seating depths on the 22-250, put this thing together, clean it out, load everything to magazine length and it's amazing. Fully expect 5 shots in one hole when spring gets here or the shooting shack is finished for winter rounds.
I have to think, w/o going full bore custom, an Armalite in .308 would give any .308 bolt gun a good run for the money, and I know My Rock River AR in .223 will outshoot any of the varmint guns my buddies or I own. Couldn't believe it when I got it... all the time working loads and seating depths on the 22-250, put this thing together, clean it out, load everything to magazine length and it's amazing. Fully expect 5 shots in one hole when spring gets here or the shooting shack is finished for winter rounds.
Are bolt actions still more accurate than .
I was also thinking about single shots, like the Ruger #1. All else being equal (barrel, ammo, stock bedding, etc.), rigidity is one of the main things to accuracy. Bolt actions are very rigid. I would't think that a single shot would be any less rigid. :wink:
Zachary
I was also thinking about single shots, like the Ruger #1. All else being equal (barrel, ammo, stock bedding, etc.), rigidity is one of the main things to accuracy. Bolt actions are very rigid. I would't think that a single shot would be any less rigid. :wink:
Zachary
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Are bolt actions still more accurate than .
Hey Swede7 I would like to see a picture of your guns if possible. I am not very educated in the whole gun thing . . . just the basic (bolt action) rifles.
Hey Swede7 I would like to see a picture of your guns if possible. I am not very educated in the whole gun thing . . . just the basic (bolt action) rifles.
I have to say sometimes its the shooter and sometimes its the gun not being sighted in properly with the correct ammo i think they all can be as good as each other if they were sighted in right. My brother has a very accurate remington pump in '06 using my reloads of course. And my bolt action '06 wasn't worth snots till i reloaded for it then it became more accurate. It also depends on what you call accurate too? My '06 will put 3 shots in the diameter of a quarter and my 338 will put two bullets thru the same hole both bolt actions and my egyptian hakim will destroy a coffee up at 100 yards with open sites and my swede mauser will shoot under 1 1/2" groups at 100 yards open sites but don't forget the three bolts were sighted in and the semi-auto hakim wasn't. It all depends how good you are on that day too or how good you want to be on that day if we focus and stay motivated to shoot good?? There are a lot of things to consider in the errors is what i'm getting at. BigBilllongwinters said:
Are bolt actions still more accurate than .
:grin: You make an important point Big Bill. I learded through years of competitive shooting that your ability to relax and put all your energy and focus into the proper mechanics and shooying skills means a lot more to your accuracy than the type of weapon; assuming they are of equal quality.
:grin: You make an important point Big Bill. I learded through years of competitive shooting that your ability to relax and put all your energy and focus into the proper mechanics and shooying skills means a lot more to your accuracy than the type of weapon; assuming they are of equal quality.
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Most accurate rifle action
There is a lot of heat that will come from the guys with accurized, heavy-bbl AR's. They are correct, these things are accurate. On the other side, benchresters (The MOST accurate kind of shooting) all use bolts. I'm going to point out, the question is about rifle actions, not shooter skill. We leave the shooter's skills out, here.
Having said the above, let's get practical. You can achieve fine accuracy with a high-quality autoloader. The military shooting teams demonstrate this all the time. You can achieve the same or better accuracy with a high-quality bolt action. Many non-military target shooters still use bolts, to excellent effect. Both work for hunting, and for any other civilian activity, equally well.
(For military use, in modern combat, there is no question but that the autoloader is preferredbut the philosophy there is "spray and pray," at which point we are no longer talking about accuracy.)
The major difference is in the cost. Autoloader guys claim the cost is equal, but then they go out and spend close to or over a grand on a gun that then has to be accurized. You can get a really nice bolt gun for a few hundred, accurize it as much as you think necessary, and have change left from a grand.
If you just buy a gun at the store and accept the factory level of accuracy, you will always pay more for the autoloader. It's a more complicated piece of machinery.
Lever guns, pumps, break-actions, double rifles, falling/rolling block single shots, and so on, do not have the same inherent accuracy. To my knowledge, there is no way to fix this.
There are other considerations in the choice of an action, for example, autoloaders aren't available in nearly as many different calibers as are bolts, but the question here is one of pure accuracy, which I hope I've answered.
There is a lot of heat that will come from the guys with accurized, heavy-bbl AR's. They are correct, these things are accurate. On the other side, benchresters (The MOST accurate kind of shooting) all use bolts. I'm going to point out, the question is about rifle actions, not shooter skill. We leave the shooter's skills out, here.
Having said the above, let's get practical. You can achieve fine accuracy with a high-quality autoloader. The military shooting teams demonstrate this all the time. You can achieve the same or better accuracy with a high-quality bolt action. Many non-military target shooters still use bolts, to excellent effect. Both work for hunting, and for any other civilian activity, equally well.
(For military use, in modern combat, there is no question but that the autoloader is preferredbut the philosophy there is "spray and pray," at which point we are no longer talking about accuracy.)
The major difference is in the cost. Autoloader guys claim the cost is equal, but then they go out and spend close to or over a grand on a gun that then has to be accurized. You can get a really nice bolt gun for a few hundred, accurize it as much as you think necessary, and have change left from a grand.
If you just buy a gun at the store and accept the factory level of accuracy, you will always pay more for the autoloader. It's a more complicated piece of machinery.
Lever guns, pumps, break-actions, double rifles, falling/rolling block single shots, and so on, do not have the same inherent accuracy. To my knowledge, there is no way to fix this.
There are other considerations in the choice of an action, for example, autoloaders aren't available in nearly as many different calibers as are bolts, but the question here is one of pure accuracy, which I hope I've answered.
Are bolt actions still more accurate than .
You guys are right about the benchrest shooters, they use bolts, single shot bolts more often than not for the rigidity. However, those usually aren't off the shelf rifles unless they're out of the Remington custom shop shelves... lol. All I was saying was that a box stock heavy barrelled AR was right up there with the best of the factory bolts if not better. as far as accurizing mine, nope. Ordered the lower through an ffl holder, $240, 24" upper w/heavy bbl around $450, complete rifle, under $700. Load the ammo, put five in the mag, squeeze trigger, that's all the work that's been done and most don't need any more than that to shoot and shoot well. I still love my bolt guns, my Ruger VT 22-250 gets a thorough wringing out every range session, but the AR is just soooo easy. Longwinters, I'll try to get a pic up this weekend, or I'll email you one if I can't figure out how to get it on here if that's ok... Happy New Year a couple days late all, shoot straight and shoot often.
You guys are right about the benchrest shooters, they use bolts, single shot bolts more often than not for the rigidity. However, those usually aren't off the shelf rifles unless they're out of the Remington custom shop shelves... lol. All I was saying was that a box stock heavy barrelled AR was right up there with the best of the factory bolts if not better. as far as accurizing mine, nope. Ordered the lower through an ffl holder, $240, 24" upper w/heavy bbl around $450, complete rifle, under $700. Load the ammo, put five in the mag, squeeze trigger, that's all the work that's been done and most don't need any more than that to shoot and shoot well. I still love my bolt guns, my Ruger VT 22-250 gets a thorough wringing out every range session, but the AR is just soooo easy. Longwinters, I'll try to get a pic up this weekend, or I'll email you one if I can't figure out how to get it on here if that's ok... Happy New Year a couple days late all, shoot straight and shoot often.
Are bolt actions still more accurate than .
Gentlemen,
This is a discussion that has no resolution. Modern weapons are made to close tolerances and modern ammunition is held to nearly the same tolerances. The biggest advantage is with the bolt action though. It is the heavy camming action that the locking lugs provide on closing. If you use close chamber tolerances and cases that fit closely to those tolerances the bolt will still close centering the cartridge in the chamber and the bullet with the bore. No other type of action has this advantage - as small as it may be.
PaulS
Gentlemen,
This is a discussion that has no resolution. Modern weapons are made to close tolerances and modern ammunition is held to nearly the same tolerances. The biggest advantage is with the bolt action though. It is the heavy camming action that the locking lugs provide on closing. If you use close chamber tolerances and cases that fit closely to those tolerances the bolt will still close centering the cartridge in the chamber and the bullet with the bore. No other type of action has this advantage - as small as it may be.
PaulS
If you've got the pocketbook, Springfield arms has the M25 "white feather" M1A .308 rifle that they guarantee for 1/2" groups with the right ammunition. That said; it costs $4000. For that amount you can get a custom bolt-action that will shoot 1/4" or better groups (if the shooter is up to it).longwinters said:
bolt accuracy
hey guys, someone earlier mentioned the single shot rifles because of the rigidity. i have a no. 1, have relaoded for it but althougth it is a great rifle i cnat get it to group any better than my bolts. i havent tuned on it yet though. i am suspecting the 2 piece stock as the the culprit. i have heard stories of adjusting the forearm tension on these guns to raise accuracy. i myself believe the 1 piece stock of the bolt guns is an advantge anybody else have this opinion?
hey guys, someone earlier mentioned the single shot rifles because of the rigidity. i have a no. 1, have relaoded for it but althougth it is a great rifle i cnat get it to group any better than my bolts. i havent tuned on it yet though. i am suspecting the 2 piece stock as the the culprit. i have heard stories of adjusting the forearm tension on these guns to raise accuracy. i myself believe the 1 piece stock of the bolt guns is an advantge anybody else have this opinion?
Re: bolt accuracy
Yes, you are correct on this. While you can blueprint a single-shot action and install a custom barrel, only certain single shot actions that float the fore-end completely MAY be able to come close to the best bolt actions. They are still held back by things such as a slower lock time (the time between pulling the trigger and the firing pin hitting the primer). The Ruger is slow this way. It has a heavy hammer (accelerates at a slower rate than most bolt actions). You can purchase a lighter hammer and a stronger firing pin spring to lessen lock time, but then you have the trigger pull which is almost always easier to lighten in a bolt setup. Brownells sells a device (It is called a Hicks Accurizer) that is installed on the Ruger's forearm hanger and allows you to play with upward barrel pressure until you get the right combination. You should also float the forend completely and make sure that the barrel extension on top is not touching the receiver (Brownell's also sells a replacement to take care of this. Then get the lighter hammer and heavier spring from Brownells, and finally; replace the trigger with a Canjar set model and if your barrel is decent from the factory, you will probably get groups that will make you forget any bolt-action. Been there and done that. I love the Nunber 1B Hornet that I have, but I wouldn't go through all that again with another one.hillbill said:
Are bolt actions still more accurate than .
theoretically, "bolts are more accurate than anything else" might have some truth in the statement. I own many bolt guns as I do semi-autos. My most accurate semi-auto is my bushmaster 20" (using the cheapest bullets in the market, 55 gr WOLF FMJBT), I can easily get under .5 - .75" groups at 100 yards, and about 2-2.5" groups at 200 yards (but remember, im feeding it the cheapest diet).
Here is what I think, if your going to be shooting shots over 500 or 600 yards, then yes, bolt WOULD be more accurate, but the real question here is, how much difference ? for the average hunter, not that much, for the competition shooter, maybe the difference between winning first place and fifth.
theoretically, "bolts are more accurate than anything else" might have some truth in the statement. I own many bolt guns as I do semi-autos. My most accurate semi-auto is my bushmaster 20" (using the cheapest bullets in the market, 55 gr WOLF FMJBT), I can easily get under .5 - .75" groups at 100 yards, and about 2-2.5" groups at 200 yards (but remember, im feeding it the cheapest diet).
Here is what I think, if your going to be shooting shots over 500 or 600 yards, then yes, bolt WOULD be more accurate, but the real question here is, how much difference ? for the average hunter, not that much, for the competition shooter, maybe the difference between winning first place and fifth.
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Are bolt actions still more accurate than .
Good chance that the average hunter couldn't put a hole in a Hummer at 500 or 600 yds. Then too, the difference for a competative benchrest shooter would maybe be the difference between 1st and last!
My understanding is that if you got a 1/4 min rifle, hope to enjoy yourself as your not gonna win unless everybody else is a no show.
Pitting a good bolt, on average, against the other actions is not a level playing field. The bolt will not lay under your leg in a saddle scabbord like a lever, won't spit out rounds like an auto nor even a pump, won't make a statement like a nice single shot or have the uppercrust appeal of a double rifle. What a bolt does is shoot and handle pressure.
Good chance that the average hunter couldn't put a hole in a Hummer at 500 or 600 yds. Then too, the difference for a competative benchrest shooter would maybe be the difference between 1st and last!
My understanding is that if you got a 1/4 min rifle, hope to enjoy yourself as your not gonna win unless everybody else is a no show.
Pitting a good bolt, on average, against the other actions is not a level playing field. The bolt will not lay under your leg in a saddle scabbord like a lever, won't spit out rounds like an auto nor even a pump, won't make a statement like a nice single shot or have the uppercrust appeal of a double rifle. What a bolt does is shoot and handle pressure.
Are bolt actions still more accurate than .
Just another word about the Ruger #1. I had a #1B in 22-250 that I loaded for a number years. Loved it. It had an inscription in the barrel, I think it read - Made in the 200th year of our American Liberty - not sure if that's it exactly, I sold it a few years ago.
Even though I loved it, I never was able to get it to group under 3/4", and that was on a good day. Even with care in reloading, working up groups, etc. etc., It just didn't live up to my expectations.
On the other hand, even my Remington 700 in .270win, that I bought in 1977 or 78' is still able to shoot a respectable .47" group with 130gr. Sierra BTSP and a load of H-4831. That's not to shabby for a 22" light barreled hunting rifle, that has only had a Basix trigger installed. I also have a Savage 12FLV in .308win, with a Choate stock, Farrel 10moa base, QRW leupold rings, a Leupold 6.5-20x50 LRT w/ varmint reticle. (I know it's not the prettiest rifle in the world, but with a weapon that shoots like this, I think it beautiful) A few months ago I shot the best group of my life with the rifle, a .16" 3 shot group. (I get tired very easily, and besides I didn't want to mess the group up). So, my vote goes for the bolt.
I've nearly a dozen bolts that all shoot and inch or better with careful handloading. I could never duplicate that with any lever, pump or single shot.
Just another word about the Ruger #1. I had a #1B in 22-250 that I loaded for a number years. Loved it. It had an inscription in the barrel, I think it read - Made in the 200th year of our American Liberty - not sure if that's it exactly, I sold it a few years ago.
Even though I loved it, I never was able to get it to group under 3/4", and that was on a good day. Even with care in reloading, working up groups, etc. etc., It just didn't live up to my expectations.
On the other hand, even my Remington 700 in .270win, that I bought in 1977 or 78' is still able to shoot a respectable .47" group with 130gr. Sierra BTSP and a load of H-4831. That's not to shabby for a 22" light barreled hunting rifle, that has only had a Basix trigger installed. I also have a Savage 12FLV in .308win, with a Choate stock, Farrel 10moa base, QRW leupold rings, a Leupold 6.5-20x50 LRT w/ varmint reticle. (I know it's not the prettiest rifle in the world, but with a weapon that shoots like this, I think it beautiful) A few months ago I shot the best group of my life with the rifle, a .16" 3 shot group. (I get tired very easily, and besides I didn't want to mess the group up). So, my vote goes for the bolt.
I've nearly a dozen bolts that all shoot and inch or better with careful handloading. I could never duplicate that with any lever, pump or single shot.
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