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Discussion Starter #1
For those of us who don't want to spend $1000 and up for a rifle, what are the best buys? The old answers of Ruger, Remington, and Winchester have changed. I see the best buys as being guns from Europe.
 

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I'll stick with Ruger !
I know some of the guns coming from overseas look good and a few may be of good quality , but Ruger is good quality and American made !
 

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Discussion Starter #3
ShootAll:

I think the recent pressure from Savage and from abroad are going to have the effect of making Rugers the best rifles in America. Now that they are going with supposedly good triggers the only thing they need to do is make their rifles consistently as accurate as what the Europeans can do (instead of the 2" @ 100 yards groups they consider acceptable for 30-06 class rifles.) They should be able to make it work. The competition mandates it. So I see it as a case where competition has improved things for the consumer.
 

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I have to agree , also i don't have a 30-06 but do have a 300 win.mag Ruger , i get 1 inch groups enough to know the rifle can do it so i guess i got lucky . a 22-250 that will get a 3/4 group on occasion with reloads . both rifles are less than 2 years old ( to me , bought new ) so maybe they are trying !
I feel the Internet has caused the upgrade of some guns and the demise of others ! lets face it if i read about a problem i will not buy it !
With regard to offshore guns causing it , i would put my money on CZ as the cause ! NICE GUN !
I just hate to not support an American company when they are trying ! no i don't bash someone for trying a new gun , i have ! but the older i get the more i realize i want to support my country and my people .
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Me too, but there are financial realities. For instance, we have 3 CZs. The 550 American has everything the Pre-64 70 has and does it better, or at least as well. The only complaint I've had about it is that it needs to be professionally bedded to maintain zero when changing humidity. Other than that it's excellent. The reason is not that the Czechs have figured out how to make great guns cheaper than everyone else. They're using the same basic methods. The difference is that they live in an economy where, when we bought the guns, a top craftsman was making about 1/20th of what a comparable US worker was making. Things have improved for the Czechs and now it's more favorable to them vis a vis the dollar. So in that case we were able to buy really good guns at far less than what it would cost for a comparable US gun.

The flip side of this is my pair of binoculars, Leica compacts that I bought years ago before the dollar collapsed vis a vis the Euro. Today I wouldn't dream of buying those same glasses because they are up around $700. They were $300 when I bought them, which made them barely tolerable.

I believe in buying the best products for the money. If we had kept buying American cars during the 70s and 80s we'd still be stuck with the same old junk that rusts on the dealer's showroom floor like the Chevys did back then. With the pressure of competition I think we can safely say that today's Chevys are about as good as any other cars. I have recently rented quite a few of them for business travel and I feel they are the most underrated cars on the American road. It was the sobering competition that made it happen. (And Toyotas are the most overpriced and overrated.)

In the case of guns, the big American makers would still be selling the same old crappy lawyer triggered guns if it weren't for recent pressure from the outside. They must have been losing sales severely, otherwise they would have kept on doing what they've always done. But once they sober up and improve their products, the prices and terms will once again be favorable and we'll be able to confidently buy domestic rifles.
 

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Really? I'm not sure... when you find a new European deer rifle that will out shoot my Remington 700 for $500 let me know...

CZ is very close, you really get a lot for your dollar with CZ rifles... But as for the other major European gun makers... sure there's some fine quality guns being produced, but IMO their prices are way out of proportion to what you get.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Beers:

I've got a .270 CZ at home that shoots as least as well as your Remington, and I paid $500 for it, including scope mounts. Shoots 1/2 inch 5-shot groups at 100 yards and I didn't do any fancy load development process. Our two other CZs are tops for accuracy too, they're 22s. My personal .22 shoots as well as any Anschutz sporter you will find-- 7/8" groups at 100 yards with cheap standard velocity ammo.

Functionally, our Tikka is at least as nice as my custom shop Remington 700, which is probably a nicer than your Remington 700 deer rifle if yours is not a custom shop model.

Unlike most who will argue with me, I actually own and use these things that I say are good, bad, and indifferent. I'm just looking at them objectively as an owner.
 

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IMO it's hard to beat a new or used Remington 700 from a value perspective. I will agree that CZ has come up with some fine offerings, but since I haven't shot one I cannot speak to their performance.
 

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My last 4 center-fire rifle purchases have been 2 Savages, 1 CZ and 1 Tikka. They all shoot extremely well, and apart from the used '95 Savage 110, had great triggers out of the box. The CZ 550 is in 243 and how come I bought it? I was after a Rem 700 but after looking at 3 of them in a local gun store, I opted for the quality of the CZ. This was not necessarily a financial decision, it was based on the fact all 3 Rems had awful triggers and barrels that were way off center in the stock, ie. one side of the barrel snug against the stock and 1/4" gap on the other side. I know that I could have had the triggers done and got the action bedded, probably would have had a decent rifle. I didn't need to do anything to my new Savage, Tikka or CZ, they came ready to go from the factory. Why should I buy a brand new rifle which needs work done it? I would still like a Rem 700 but.....
 

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tikkas and cz's are obviously good, but gotta say savages are tops imho. the euro classic i have is an unreal gun in both beauty and accuracy. factor in price and it starts making me wonder why anyone is buying remingtons. love cz's, just that gun/gun my savages have been more accurate though i'd fault no one for going for either.
 

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I might consider a CZ .22 rifle, but I'd never even consider buying a new centerfire rife made outside the US.

We've exported too many jobs already.
 

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Nonya may have a point. I work in the sewing industry, so spend a great deal of time abroad, I write this from China.... 3 weeks into a 4 week project. I believed that Triumph motorcycles were all British built until I saw a huge Triumph factory in Thailand. Assembled and built.... a play on words? I have a Ford Mustang and Chevy Silverado..... they were clearly not built with 100% US made parts. Companies care about one thing, the bottom line and the shareholders.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Mk454:

Savage is the most underrated rifle company on earth. Their products are really excellent.
 

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Remington must think that the eastern european quality is good because they offer a Zastra model with a Mauser action that they brand as their own. Used to be a Charles Daily but they dropped them for the Rem contract. And charge a lot more for it.
 

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Old English, that's exactly what they're supposed to think about. Otherwise there'd be no company.
I found Questors post interesting. If something is made in a euro sweat shop, its okay. But it seems in other post (perhaps not Questor) folks have railed against buying stuff made in asian sweat shops. What's the difference. In both cases the workers are bettering themselves.
 

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Savage... As Accurate out the box as ANY, and better than Most... Made in the USA by an Employee owned company.. The Good ol USA still means alot to some folks, Myself included ;D
 
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