Graybeard Outdoors banner

1 - 12 of 12 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
761 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
:D Hi,All.
All you people with a Browning BPCR,does your soule sight have a lot of side play?
I been strugeling with my .45-70 for a long time trying to get to shoot a decent groupe. My sight has a lot of side play (1/4"-5/16") which I think when the sear disengages and the hammer dropes is enough to change the sight to give me a problem.My .40-65 is the same but only has 1/8".which is still to much,I feel there should be no movement.I did what is the the unthinkable I put a scope on the .45-70 and got a 2 1/2" 7 shot groupe @ 200 yds with one flyer at 3 1/2" that is what I feel is good.
Several weeks ago I called Browning and asked were I can send the sights for repair and the first person told me Browning didnt make a BPCR with a tang sight,so I said let me talk to your Boss,when he finally got to the phone I told him my problem he told me to call Axtell.Axtell has nothing to do with them.
I think Browning just wont stand behind there product.
I called MVA. and ordered a 108 long range sight, that is a Quality sight,now the rifle shoots.
If you have the same problem I found out Lee Shaver rebuilds the Browning Soule sight and makes them like they should be.Lp.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
761 Posts
Discussion Starter #2
Hi. Marsh.
I hope you have enough corn cobs for the cook stove to keep you warm :grin:
Marsh just the staff has side play.I think the threads on the base of the staff are sloppy were the traverse(spelling?)screw moves the staff for windage.
Boath rifles do it,the .40 is not as bad as the .45.I can see a mechanical joint loosening up in time with use.and I do use these rifles a lot averaging atleast 600 rounds a month,but they arn't that old yet.
Lee rebuilds them and from what I understand him saying he puts a spring in it to tighten it up.
I was just out this morning and shot 100 rounds testing a new lube I made up,the results looked verry good.Lp.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
72 Posts
Hi Leadpot, I have had my Browning BPCR for 2 years, only put about 2000 rds through it, but have had no problems with it at all (knock on wood). Did this come on gradually or something you found all at once?
Hope you find a good cure. I would be interested in your lube formula also.

I make mine out of pure raw beeswax, vaseline, (equal parts of both) and a few tablespoons of virgin olive oil. It works as well as anything I have found on the market so far. The weather is pretty mild here in WA State so I don't know how it will hold up in real hot weather. :D
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
761 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
:D Hi do.Fren Marsh.

I would share any lube securt formuler wid you Marsh.
When I get it worked out I will post it fer you.I just made up a small batch and I got it a little to soft it workes good now but it was snowing so hard yesterday I jest couldnt see the target anymore at 200 yds.and it was cool.
I want to stiffen it up a little more and wax up some bullets and load a few in empty cases and put them in the oven to see how much temp they will take before the lube runs off and the ones in the case to see what they will take before it's gets by the wad.
Marsh I'm always looking for that silver load combination.the mix I'm working on now is probly what most everyone tryed one way or nuther,Its a mix of bees wax-snow seal a shoe water proofing mix that is made out of bees wax and other natural stuff,a little Murphy oil soap the stiff stuff in a jar,lard ,and Lanolin Hydrous.and one batch I made with tallow and crisco instead of lard.
I dont know if it is any better than what I use now or not.The stuff I use now is a mix of Toilet bowl wax rings(Johnni rings)crisco or unsalted lard and Lanolin I use the Johnni rings there sheap $1.50 insted of $10.00 for bees wax,besides the Johnni rings use bees was or they used to with other natural things mixed in to soften them up like vegies and animal fat.Being a Plumber I asked what they make them out of.Well nuff of this see you when I get it worked out marsh.Lp.

Omaha Poke tnx fer your repply-Nutting wrong wid them rifles I like em I jist dont like the Mickeymouse sights.
TNX. fer the lube Idea have to try it once.Lp.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
507 Posts
LeadPot, there should be a flat concave spring (Rear Sight Windage Barrel Spring - part # 74692) that rides in the channel in the bottom of the Rear Sight Windage Barrel (part number 74693). I've heard that the spring was inadvertently left out on a few sights. The absence of the spring can cause the problem you are experiencing. I have 5 browning sights and none have the problem. Regards,
Wayne
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
761 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
TexasMac.
Thank you for your help,I have parts comming.
The springs are missing on boath of my rifles.I did put a .045 shim under one sight that helped.For the life of me I cant think of any reason why they cut the bottom of that sight barrel like that,seems like it would be a lot better mechanical joint with out that deep cut in the bothom of the barrel.TNX.AGN.Lp.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
507 Posts
Lead Pot, I'm glad I was able to help. As far as why the spring is used I assume it's to take up the slack between the bottom of the sight staff and sight barrel caused by machining tolerances. If the slot and spring were not used the two sliding parts would have to be very precisely machined and lapped in place in order to minimize lateral movement in the sight staff. It apparently works as designed if the spring is installed.

Browning's sight has been the subject of a lot criticism, some of it justified as in your case. But if the sight is assembled properly then I have not found one that will not do the job it was designed for. Yes, they do not meet the quality of MVA and some others but the differences do not affect the accuracy capabilities. One aspect which is forgotten by most that publicly and constantly complain about Browning's sight is that it was designed to be functional/accurate at a lower cost in order to offer an attractively priced complete rifle/sight package.
Wayne
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
26,136 Posts
The man you need to speak with at Browning is Denny Wilcox. He is the man responsible for the development of the BPCR and it is still his baby. No one there knows more about it.

True they don't make it but Denny has stuff stashed away that likely no one else at Browning even knows he has.

GB
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
281 Posts
Hey, Leadpot...

Did you get the extract of the Browning Seminar Notes, I sent you a couple of days back? If not, I'll post 'em.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
761 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
Sorry Charlie,I havent seen anything under that heading from you.
I have parts coming for the sights.If they dont work I will let Lee fix them.tnx.Charly.Lp
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
281 Posts
Well, here they are, then...there's lotsa stuff about other Browning guns, but the BPCR stuff is in there, someplace. I just hope the typography ain't too meesed up.
CD
=============================================
Browning Seminar Notes:

Browning Gold:
There is NO FACTORY RECALL on Browning Gold 3 ½” with NN serial #’s. If the firearms work fine then they are O.K.
Earlier NN series guns produced from ’97-early ’99 need to go to the factory for evaluation if malfunctioning.
Late series NN and current MM series can generally be fixed in the shop.
Need to provide serial #’s for 3 ½” guns when ordering parts.
Configuration II improvement include triggerguard assy., feed latch, and magazine follower and buffer assemblies
Configuration I and II parts CANNOT be interchanged.
1998 was the transition year to the current style shell latch.
When replacing the shell latch you must be aware of the angle of the latch (see Browning handout). 6 Different buffers are available to address latch issues. All dampers carry the same part # and you must specify which # (#’s) you need, 1-6.
The new style triggerguard has a damper on the left side under the carrier dog to prevent vibration of the shell lift and to prevent a problem where the shells will eject out the bottom from the magazine tube. Older guns CANNOT be converted to this style
The new style extractor with no plunger allows the extractor to come flush with the bolt face.
Ejection port wear is normal. The new style 3 ½” gun has a cut in the receiver to reduce the cosmetic effect but wear along the ejection rail of the aluminum frame is normal.
Ejection problems are normally either gas port or piston related, possibly extraction related as well.

Winchester Super-X 2
Super-X 2’s with a carrier dog with a 90 deg. angle are bad & tend to crack. Newer (good) style carrier dogs have a greater than 90 deg. angle.
Double feeds with 1 ¼ oz. Loads are usually caused by the shell stop. The factory shell stop is .117 thick. The shell stop may be reduced to no less than .111” and then break the sharp edge with a stone.

Gold 10ga.
The Gold 10ga. has two different style bolts. The new style bolts have less material on the bottom of the bolt body so that the bolt will unlock quicker on the shorter barreled guns.

Browning BPS
The serial # of the firearm should accompany all parts requests.
Don’t assume that parts interchange between 3” and 3 ½” guns because for the most part they do not.
You should bend cartridge stops to repair feeding problems. The tabs as well as the ends themselves can be bent. You shouldn’t have to remove material from the shell stops to make them work but you can polish the ends if necessary.
The 3 ½” BPS recall replaced the slide lock stop. The new slide lock stop has a larger face and repaired a situation where the bolt did not lock in the forward position. Extractors were also relieved to improve the overall smoothness of the action.

Browning Auto 5
12 & 20ga. Parts are different/
A-5’s have three different hammers - 12, 12m, and 20ga.
A-5 bolts have four different links - 12l, 12m, 16-20, and 20m.
The trigger pull on A-5’s should be between 4 and 5 lbs.
Excessive forearm wear can cause receiver problems
The action tube in synthetic stocks can be wrapped in foam to keep the tube from breaking loose of the receiver.
When replacing the action spring tube, ream the hole to ½” and re-silver solder.
Impact screwdrivers should be used to remove stubborn stock bolts.
You can remove the triggerguard screws (but they’re tight) to give you room to wiggle stubborn stock bolts.
Newer A-5 wood doesn’t tend to fit older Belgian A-5’s well.
You must relieve the inside corners at the rear of the receiver to prevent stock cracking when putting new wood on old guns.
On all guns you must relieve the rear barrel channel of the forearm if tight to avoid cracking and function problems.
Synthetic forearms generally tend to fit all A-5’s loosely.
Synthetic stock sets do not fit older A-5’s well and really aren’t recommended.
You should replace the mainspring when it curves on a flat surface and replace the mainspring and action spring if the bolt is hitting the rear of receiver.
There are 3 different types of bolts used in the A-5.
The feed latch must be adjusted properly for the firearm to function correctly.
The carrier spring is also critical to proper functioning. It may be too short or too long or too heavy or too weak
The magazine tube and follower must match (by the serial number of the firearm).
30 Weight oil should be used to lubricate magazine tubes.
If magnum guns do not cycle 3” steel loads the firearm should be switched to 2 ¾” friction ring settings.
New style magnum ejectors do not have a spring behind them but are a direct replacement for the old style.
The BOSS System
Stainless guns should have the threads coated with an anti-seize compound.
The part # is B0004500 for the nylon BOSS insert (repairs loose BOSS problem)

BAR
The difference between the Mark I and Mark II guns includes the bolt release, gas system, aluminum receivers (on the lightweights), and a screw adjustment for gas bleed off
Most of the cycling problems in the rifle are because the rifle is cycling TOO FAST.
Rifles should be test fired with the lightest Federal Classic ammunition. When properly regulated the shells should eject at just about 90 degrees to the receiver.
Nylon bushings becoming hammered, timing latches breaking, wear and burring on the bolt are all signs of the rifle cycling too fast.
There are two different styles of timing latches and two different styles of bolt sleeves. The two must match.
Action springs breaking is also a sign of cycling too fast
.243 win., .270 win., and 7mm Rem. Mag. Guns tend to have the most problems.
The forearm should overlap but not touch the receiver.
The contact points of the forearm must be tight or the accuracy of the rifle will be reduced.
There must be a gap between the rear of the receiver at the top and the stock along the entire radius.
The safety on current models is reversible.
The part # for the steel threaded scope mount inserts on the lightweight models is: B3279115.
Recommended on-hand service parts are: timing latches, action springs, timing latch pins, buffers, front swivel studs, ejector springs, ejector plungers, and extractor springs.
For headspace on a BAR: NoGo + .005 should not lock up, NoGo + .001, 2, etc. should lock up.

BT-99, 99 Plus, BT-100
BT-99 Plus’s have the same recoil reducer as the Citori plus but the Citori version has a much heavier internal spring.
Caps on recoil reducers should be tightened until flush and loc-tited.
The reducer’s nylon buffers get beat-up and should be replaced when the through-hole becomes out of round.
If the recoil reducer hangs up check the screw in the side, on early models the screw was too long.
After adjusting the recoil reducer, loc-tite the end nut.
BT-99 Max has a setscrew for the receiver pin (take down).
You should have a clearance of .008” between the trigger and the tail of the sear when fitting new parts.
The rib elevator nut on the BT-100 is left-hand thread.
The new style rib elevator spring will fit all models; the old flat style will fit the old style guns only.
The trigger should have .006” travel before the hammer falls. Use feeler gauge and pull trigger to gauge, the hammer should not fall.
The firearm should cock before it ejects.
The cocking lever should have a small amount of up and down play.
The ejector extension tends to break more than anything else on these guns.
To rebuild the firearm or repair barrel lockup add material to the barrel locking surfaces and refit.
When repairing barrel fit, the top lever should be at the right side or a little off the topside of the receiver.
BT-99 and BT-100 forearms and forearm parts all interchange.
A lot of hand fitting is required on most parts of these firearms.
If BT’s eject every time when opened take material off the ejector sear.

Citori
The inertia trigger CANNOT be converted to a mechanical style trigger.
If the firearm fires one barrel and not the other check the backside of the sears for roughness and smooth.
Forearm retainers should be fit to snap closed.
To tighten barrel fit add material to the locking piece and fit until top lever is at the right side of the top strap of the receiver.
When adjusting the cocking mechanisms make sure that the hammers go rearward past the sears and then come forward to engage.
If the ejector hammer fails to fall troubleshoot with the forearm iron installed and the wood removed, be aware of the sear engagement and relieve sear as necessary to achieve proper engagement.

Hi-Power
The latest hi-power front sight blade has a large gap between the bottom of the sight blade and the top of the slide. While not aesthetically pleasing, it has fixed the broken sight blade problem.
Use Brownell’s baking lacquer to repair epoxy coated frames and slides.
If the hammer follows the slide forward stone the sear angle to 90 degrees.
Firing pin retaining plates tend to crack and break.
DO NOT REMOVE the magazine safety.
Do not polish the feed ramp past 240 grit or it will actually screw up feeding.
For feeding problems, flatten the feed ramp, radius with a 3/8” dremel bit, polish to 240 grit and make sure you are using a new style magazine.
2000 is going to be the last production year for the Hi-power.
Trigger pull should be between 7-10 lbs. Firearms coming back to the factory for repair with a pull under 7 lbs will be increased until within spec.

Buckmark
The newer style firing pin is beveled, when installing you should break the sharp edge.
All Buckmark barrels will interchange.
Ejector must be staked tightly or you will have ejection problems.
Ejectors should be staked with a ball tipped punch.
Ejection problems are usually caused by the extracting casing hitting the left side magazine lip.
The disconnector should be cut back at a slight angle and the sear should bottom out in the notch for proper engagement.
The extractor should have free play to work properly and should have a slight clearance with the front of the bolt face, if necessary remove material from the inside of the extractor hook.
Be sure to inspect all buffers and replaced cracked or broken buffers as necessary.
Be sure to lubricate under the sight rail where the bolt rides or the pistol may short cycle.
Recommended service parts are: firing pins, mainsprings, sight rail screws and washers, and buffers.
Factory trigger pulls should be 3.5-5 lbs. On standard Buchmarks, 2.5-5 lbs. On Silhouette, 5.5 Target, and other target models.

1885 / BPCR
If the hammer is hitting the sear when going forward (hammer only falling to half cock) remove material from the sear where contact is taking place, blend surfaces together and polish the end of the sear spring.
To smooth action and help with the falling to half cock problem polish the curved hammer surface from the start of the factory polishing to the top of the hammer, maintaining the curve.
Spring struts need to be replaced if they are bent or the tips are bent. Replacing and polishing the struts as well as the mainsprings also helps with the falling to half cock problem.
Newer style extractors come all the way to the rear and have very little play, old style will move back and forth.
These rifles have a stock-cracking problem generally caused by shipping.
To rebuild the rear sight follow these steps:
1) Bend the rear sight spring from a “V” to half octagon shaped in a vise.
2) Polish the bottom part of the sight staff that contacts the sight housing and don’t lose the square spring that goes in the bottom (sometimes missing from the factory).
3) Squeeze the sight housing in a vise and refit the sight staff so that it has no play and moves snugly left to right finishing with lapping compound.
4) Stone the sides of the sight staff and the housing where the adjustment screws ride.
5) Reinstall adjustment screws with the minimum amount of play possible to get the sight moving from side to side.
Cratering of primers can be prevented by rounding the tip of the firing pin, maintaining good protrusion.
Service parts should include extra receiver pins, mainsprings, spring guides, and both rear sight springs.
Factory trigger spec is 3.5 to 6.5 lbs.
When fitting a new stock, there should be a .001” clearance all the way around the rear tang and a slightly larger gap at the very rear.

BLR
The firing pin has been changed with a better radius to prevent puncturing primers (and burning up the firing pins).
Factory trigger spec is 4-6.5 lbs.

A-500
Replacement stocks should be glass bedded and relieved across the top radius.
For stock cracking problems also ensure that the rear plate of the receiver is securely welded all the way around.

Winchester Supreme
The safety detent pin protrudes .012” from the top of the receiver and shouldn’t be removed if refinishing.
Forearm screws should be blue loc-tited, the top lever screw red loc-tited.
Firing pins have a .008” protrusion with the hammers in the at rest position.
Firing pin protrusion may be adjusted with the mainspring nuts, which are also loc-tited.
There are 5 different lengths of cocking rods, when fitted properly there should be .012” of play in the forward position.
There should be a maximum clearance between the locking bolt extension and the connector.

Browning Recoilless
Failure to reset is usually caused by the inner receiver link being on the edge (not centered in the recess) of the drive spring follower (inside the buttstock).
If the above is not the problem, it can generally be cured by polishing the inside of the drive spring tube and deburring and polishing the side opening in the tube (where the roll pin rides).
Also, check the inner striker sear latch to make sure that it isn’t broken or burred.
Most real problems with this firearm are related to the forearm: cracking and breaking of the forearm retainers and elongation of the through hole in the rib assembly.
To function properly the pivoting sear must be able to move rearward freely.
The Recoilless recall replaced the pivoting sear.
With a lot of use the ejector springs also tend to get weak in this firearm.

For test firing purposes the factory uses the following amounts of ammunition:
All Pistols: 4 magazines
Browning Golds: 21 rounds
All Others: 2 magazines

Browning’s dealer’s website is located at: <http://www.bacmorgan.com> and has a wealth of information including parts diagrams and price lists.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
761 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
:D Hi ALL.
Well I finally got my parts from browning to fix the two sights.
before reassembling the sight I squeased the barrel assembly together .003 in a vice and guffed the rough spots off the staff base so it's smooth.Now it's tight like it should be.
TNX.for the help Texas Mac and the rest of you guys.Lp.
 
1 - 12 of 12 Posts
Top