bucks

bucks in Pa

I’m from southeast PA. We only need to have 3 points on one side for it to be a legal buck. I ‘m supporting the antler restrictions in the belief that it will help produce better bucks, but moreover it will improve the genetics of the entire herd. Still one other benefit will be the extra degree of safety that will come from the need for the hunters to positively identify the number of points before taking the shot. These new restrictions have made this past archery season pretty darn interesting. Had one deer come into sight with about 15 minutes of legal hunting hours left, I could see that it was a definite Y on both sides, but diminishing light prevented me from positively determining if the third point would meet the 1” length requirement. Deer was 15 to 20 yards away and I still could not be sure. Shooting hours expired before I could be sure. Had another get within range only to find that one antler had been broken off and the other was a small spike. (Would have been a legal deer last year.)

The biggest problem I have found with the whole program, was the deceit that the game commission used to get some hunters to buy into the program. The Game Commission preached that if there was a mistaken kill ( a non-legal antler restriction buck) they would only seek a $25.00 fine and the hunter would be required to give the antlers to the game commission. The hunter would still be able to keep the meat. Once the antler restrictions were passed, the penalty was listed in the hunting regulation book but stated that the hunter must provide the WCO (game officer or deputy) with a written report detailing the exact nature of the incident. The WCO would then make his determination as to weather it was a mistaken kill or not. If iIf the WCO decided it was a mistake, the $25.00 fine was applied, if not what he considers a mistake the fine was $500.00. Based on some posts I’ve seen on other web sites, it appears that a lot of hunters will just let mistake kills lay, or they might sneak them out after dark and butcher the deer themselves rather than risk an unfavorable decision by the WCO.

bucks in Pa

I think that the whole PA thing is about bringing money into the state. Colorado has all those rules and stuff, and it's all about money. In state tags are 35 dollars for Elk, and out of state people pay 350. It's nice to get a big buck or elk, but there are lots of people that don't care about that, they want meat, and some feed there family off of the meat. If you want a big buck in PA, just hunt somewhere that is remote, or on your own land.

The elk population here in Colorado has gotten very large, so last year they were allowing extra tags and reduced out of state cost. This year it is expected to be the same, and they are even going to allow a large increase in Either sex tags.

I hunted in PA for many years, and there probably would have been many years that I would not have gotten a Buck if these restrictions were in place. They should only make them for State Game lands only, that would still allow people to hunt on their own land, and even allow Private owners to make what ever rules they want, increasing the chance that they would be able to sell hunting packages to out of state folks, thus bringing the money into the state and allowing them to obtain an income from it.......

PA has done a great job from my understanding managing the wildlife over the past two decades, hopefully this won't change that but one question I have for them is.....

Are you managing wildlife for PA residents or are you managing it to make money and allow rich out of state folks an opportunity to bag a 'BIG BUCK'?????

bucks in Pa

To anyone who thinks that restricting antlers by points is a good way to improve the genetics or age structure of a deer herd, I give you this scenario:

Bing = a 1.5 year-old buck with modest genetics and a 2x3 rack.
Bang = a 1.5 year-old buck with poor genetics and a 1x1 rack.
Bong = a 1.5 year-old buck with excellent genetics and a 4x4 rack.
Smack = a 3.5 year-old dandy buck with 10 points and a 22" spread.

Deer season comes along with a 4-point on one side antler restriction. Which deer gets killed? Bong goes down early. Smack doesn't last much longer in the face of hunters with unfilled tags hunting harder and longer, and PASSING UP INFERIOR bucks. Pretty good deer year.

One year passes. Bing and Bang have spread their DNA throughout the fawn crop because they got the better part of the rut to breed in. Bing is now a pretty 4x3 and Bang is now a cull 3x3. None of the 1.5 year-olds have 4 points on a side yet (because they inherited inferior antler genes from Bing and Bang).

Deer season comes along with a 4-point on one side antler restriction. Bang cannot be culled because he is only 3x3. The only deer taken this year is Bing with his pretty 4x3. Bang and the 1.5 y-o inferiors (mostly spikes and forkhorns) do 90% of the breeding. Fair deer year.

The next year 80% of the bucks have inferior genetics (because inferior genetics are protected by law). Bang is now finally a 4x4, but with short main beams and tines. Most of the bucks are now spikes due to a combination of inferior genetics being favored by the harvest criteria and an excess number of bucks per land area reducing the nutrition quality as well.

Deer season comes and Bang is now a baggable buck, although he isn't very pretty. He is taken nonetheless by a meat hunter, along with the only other deer having 4 points on a side--a 1.5 y-o with superior genetics that grew a dandy little 4x4 rack despite the low nutrition quality. He is now gone from the breeding pool as well. Less than desirable deer year.

Do I need to go any further? POINT RESTRICTIONS DO NOT IMPROVE THE QUALITY OR GENETICS OF A DEER HERD. Only quality age-and-sex criterion management with stable nutrition will do the job. Don't let anyone blow any other flavor smoke into any of your private orifices! :x