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Discussion Starter #1
I have my thoughts...

But, Why do You suppose the word "Commitment" does not appear in "Solid N.T. Translations?"

Yet, the word is used so often by N.T. Believers in regard to their connection with the.....

Savior (Body #1).....and....

The Church (Body #2)...


JonJon
 

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JonJon, are you speaking of the word commitment, or the act of commitment?

2nd Timothy Chapter 1 verse 12. For the which cause I also suffer these things: nevertheless I am not ashamed: for I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that He is able to keep that which "I have COMMITTED" [/color] unto Him against that day.[/color]

1st Peter Chapter 4 verse 19. Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of God "COMMIT" [/color] the keeping of their souls to Him in well doing, as unto a faithful Creator.[/color]

Psalms Chapter 37 verse 5. "Commit" [/color] thy way unto the Lord; trust also in Him; and He shall bring it to pass.[/color]

Psalms Chapter 31 verse 5, Luke Chapter 23 verse 46, Acts Chapter 7 verse 59, 1st Peter Chapter 2 verse 23, Psalms Chapter 37 verse 3, & verse 5, Chapter 118 verse 8, Proverbs Chapter 3 verse 5, Isiah Chapter 26 verse 4, Chapter 50 verse 10, [/color]

All of these verses speak of COMMITTMENT to God, both in New and Old Testement.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Dee,

Well Put...
Speaking simply from the New Testament...
There is the use of the words Commit, committed etc...

But the concept in each of these instances....
Is the ACT of placing ourselves in "God's hands."
An entrusting/reliance outside of our selves.

As the word "commitment" is often used in believer conversations/circles....
It is contexted as a "commitment" which the uninformed Christian often assumes to be...
Something similar to a New Year's Resolution.
A sorta...."Promising God that we'll be Good" or a Measuring Rod for the "Level of Sincerity in our ACTS toward HIM"....
Verses a reliance on God's ACTS on our behalf.....

JonJon
 

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Well JonJon, if a Christian puts his faith in Christ he HAS made a commitment to God in my way of thinking. Of course there are some Bill Clintons out there that would try to re-design the meaning of the word commitment.
I think what you are talking about are those whom want their cake, and eat it too. We have a society of folks whom call themselves Christians, and probably BELIEVE that they are saved, and may actually not be. They walk, talk, act, and dress the way they always have, and I am referencing the very CARNAL side of these aforementioned actions. What is in the heart is usually reflected in what you see "outwardly". We have young ladies whom come to our church, that CANNOT cover themselves when they sit down in the sanctuary because they do not have enough on to cover themselves. Their mothers many times are in the same boat. When taking the offering, this is at times, UNCOMFORTABLE.
We are to live a life pleasing to God, and some how I don't think he would be pleased. I refer to it as "huggin the devil all week and the SON on Sundays".
I have also heard it as "LEAVING CHURCH JUST AS YOU CAME", i.e. unchanged.
All this points to "less" than a new years eve resolution, much less a Commitment to God, and certainly does not fit the description of Pleasing God in a scriptural sense.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Dee,

Yes, yes... to those points...

And yet.....aren't there still other misapplied features to this "commitment" thing?....

By that I mean, Are there not those out there with sincere hearts (though confused) who....

Have rightly "Received Christ by Faith" and then mistakenly tried/try to live the "On going life of Faith via their own commitments?"

In additional words, they Faith the "Birth Truths" only to "Get wrapped around the axle (of guilt)".....

By continually RePromising God that they will be better boys and girls when they stumble day to day.

This "living the so called Christian life in their own power" is an evidence of misunderstanding the "Good News" to begin with.

They somehow have Missed the truths that Paul refers to in I Cor 2 Verse 9 and following... "know the Things God has Freely Given Us."


JonJon
 

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1st Corinthians Chapter 2 verse 9. But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, NEITHER[/color] (those things seen and heard)[/color] have entered into the HEART OF MAN[/color], the things which God hath prepared for THEM THAT LOVE HIM.[/[/color]color]

I THINK I understand what you are saying here, but I am not sure. As far as 1st Corinthians Chapter 2 verse 9, this verse is speaking of LACK OF SPIRITUAL INSIGHT, and Spiritual Discernment, which is basically what I meant when I said they HOLD ONTO, the carnal world, and try to mesh it with the Spiritual one, and it will not.
God says we are to be a PRECULIAR PEOPLE, separating ourselves from the world, i.e. the carnal mind. This is not completely possible as we are flesh, but we are to STRIVE to Please God, and HAVE and inward and outward change. When these changes do not occur, it is an obvious refusal, or lack of Discernment of God's will, on the part of the person. [/color]
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Dee,

Exactly,

And for the last several years one of my constant curiosities has been...

Centered around why these "Things that God has freely given us (1Cor 2:12)" are so unknown.

And what are these things as you state which produce this "Inward and outward change?"

If the Christian Life is about Transformation....then...what topics are key (foundational) to this Transformation?

I do not expect you to list them (or anyone else) but they should be readily known and expressed from the...Word Go!

And referred to from Then On.

I believe that Transformation (God's Kind) revolves more around knowing what Acts God has done for us than the reverse.

So what are those "Things" that we can clearly know.... and be transformed by them from the inside out....

Rather than by a Human Commitment which moves more often from the outside in.

This is subtle, but real, and misunderstood by "many in the Faith."


JonJon
 

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Okay, now I'm with you JonJon. The KEY is Spiritual Discernment. One either has it, or on does not. There are 90 year old deacons in churches that have trouble digesting spiritual pablum, let alone milk or meat.
God gives us Spiritual Discernment thru STUDY OF THE WORD, PRAYER, FAITH, and SEEKING A "DEEPER UNDERSTANDING" thru the WORD rather than an "emotional" worship with the latest repetitious praise song.
How can one TRUST someone that they know almost NOTHING about, in this case, CHRIST?
Most do not know the difference between CONFESSING a sin, and REPENTANCE of a sin. Most do not want to give up their life style, friends that are bad influences, habits that RUIN their witness to others, and on and on.
God in scripture warns us to REMOVE TEMPTATION from our lives, and most of us do not take this seriously enough, or consistantly enough, I know I'm certainly don't, and some do not even realize they are supposed to.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Dee again,

Yes,

I am going to leave this topic for tonight and pick it up tomorrow sometime. I have more I want to bounce off this forum on this topic.


JonJon....out...
 

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I'm goin to New Orleans. Later.
 

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God made a covenant. He made it knowing the folks He made it with--not asking what they must do--in regards too the law--but by faith in what He was doing/will do/is going too do.
It is a touchy subject--this commitment thought--in regards too salvation.
Now, past salvation, it is the Lord who works in folks to His will and His way.
We all--if we are completely honest and look at ourownselves in complete honesty--fall far short--doing things willfully that we know are wrong/thinking thoughts we know are sinful/holding pride up as our own God.
My repenter broke. I find myownself too be something that I do not desire too be and I am helpless--in a worldly way of thinking---to be all that I wish before God.
It is His commitment--I think--that is the difference.
Blessings
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Bill,

Yes,

It is His commitment that makes the difference.....

Yet, this too is a learning process for some....many....most....What heck - ALL. Is it not?

In one real sense, that is why "The Faith" calls us to Faith (trust) Him for His commitments to us.

So, Our Faith or The Faith......is contrary to promises and commitments made by self........even by a sincere self.

After all, who in "this world" can follow through with the commitments/promises necessary to live the life Jesus lived.

Again, after all, He's the Standard.

I may be getting ahead of my self here...

But, the Christian life is not just difficult...

It is down right impossible.

Only one person has ever lived it and by His own plan He desires to live it again "through each of us." (His commitment/promise/power).

But how does this happen....If I can not promise God to be good.

Graham estimated that 90+ percent of believers do not know how.


JonJon
 

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I can see the reasoning Jon.
All of us have our strengths and weakness'. It is most easy too get caught up in our strengths and chastise those who struggle with them---and it is the same the other way around.
If it were not for grace I would go crazy---I find myownself lacking in even my strengths.
You and I are on the same page---I just can't get off the first page because I keep finding my own errors.
Blessings
 

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Discussion Starter #14
williamlayton said:
I can see the reasoning Jon.
All of us have our strengths and weakness'. It is most easy too get caught up in our strengths and chastise those who struggle with them---and it is the same the other way around.
If it were not for grace I would go crazy---I find myownself lacking in even my strengths.
You and I are on the same page---I just can't get off the first page because I keep finding my own errors.
Blessings
Bill,.

I think you've touched on something(s) there.

"If it were not for grace I would go crazy...." Wouldn't most of us....it is hard to fight mental illness.

Some would say that I've fought it for years but lost before the bell rang in the first round. :D

In any event,

The chasm between grace (sanity) on one side.....and....being crazed (curable guilt gone wild) on the other is real.

Our Relationship (sonship) does not change...........but....our Fellowship (with God) can change....

1 John 2:12-13 -- The Message ---in contemporay english
I remind you, my dear children:
Your sins are forgiven[/color] (JonJon's insert: past, present & future)[/color] in Jesus' name.
You veterans were in on the ground floor, and know the One who started all this;
you newcomers have won a big victory over the Evil One.

13-14
And a second reminder, dear children:
You know the Father from personal experience.
You veterans know the One who started it all;
and you newcomers—such vitality and strength! God's word is so steady in you.
Your fellowship[/color] with God enables you to gain a victory over the Evil One.

The question then becomes "How is fellowship with God maintained?"
What Biblical concepts do we lean on (trust in) which assure us that our fellowship is in good health?

Maybe these questions could make up a new thread.

JonJon
 

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quote author=JonJon link=topic=130145.msg1098479129#msg1098479129 date=1194804476]
I have my thoughts...

But, Why do You suppose the word "Commitment" does not appear in "Solid N.T. Translations?"

Yet, the word is used so often by N.T. Believers in regard to their connection with the.....

Savior (Body #1).....and....
The Church (Body #2)...
JonJon
[/quote]
COMMITMENT--Process that restricts freedom of action.[/color]
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Bob,

Help me understand here....
I took your comment to mean that commitments are limited in the Faith
Because it limits other choices there after?!

Am close...but no cigar or no?

JonJon
 

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JonJon said:
Bob,

Help me understand here....
I took your comment to mean that commitments are limited in the Faith
Because it limits other choices there after?!

Am close...but no cigar or no?

JonJon
Yes :'(
No :p

Sorry I was just pretending to be Bill :eek:

Commitment is something that cannot be fixed later, without becoming meaningless or making the committer hypocritical.

It is nothing to play with so it should be used, or mentioned, with great thought.

Except in a leap year.
Bob
 
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