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Discussion Starter #1
Has anybody ever made copper cups for a 444 Marlin Dia. .429 from copper tubing? If so, what length was the copper cup and the weight of the finished bullet?
Example; I made some, I cut the copper tubing at .895 in length, but after I finished making the bullet it only weighed 235 grs. that`s lead core and copper cup finished. I guess my question is, what determines the length virsus weight? Is there a formula other than trial and error?
The bullet finished was a round nose about 1 ogive.
Thanks bullet maker :D
 

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Bulletmaker, I believe Mr Corbin has a formula/chart in one of his books, but it will only get you to the aproximate mix if jacket-lead that you will need. You will find that a guestimate will get you close, but a workout with a scales,micrometer, file and perhaps hacksaw is necessary. First, you make up 5 or 6 jackets about 1/4" longer than you think you'll need after you make your guestimate. (I hope you have one of the new adjustable length rounding over punches). Cut one of the jackets to the length you think is the "correct" length. Because you'll be reducing .5 tube to the .429 size, it's best to start your measuring before reduction... Keep good records. Go thru the process of making ONE bullet of the weight and design you want (you have to insure that the lead and jacket you use is the exact weight you want to end up with). If you have too much jacket reduce the length of your next 'test' jacket, and add a slight bit more lead to again equal what weight bullet you want. If, on the 1st try, you have too much lead, lengthen the jacket you use, and reduce the lead a bit. I've done this time and time again for several tube thicknesses in several different calibers. Once you 'discover' the correct jacket length , refer back to your notes as to how much you had to cut off of your test jacket to make that length, and adjust the lengths of your 'bullet tubes' and round over punch accordingly. Usualy, You will only have to make 3 or 4 test bullets before getting the right one. At this point, I suggest you contact Mr Butch Hairfield (see an earlier post he answered) and have him send you 10 1" long .429 .030"wall cups for testing. (Be sure your core seating punch is compatable as some tube is .032 or .035") Then, once you find the exact cup length you need using the above process (less the reduction of course), order a bucket of cups from him of that length. His product will probably be of less cost than the tube, and will certainly be less work overall. 8)
 

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Discussion Starter #3
copper jackets

Thanks Talon, for the help. It gave me a starting point. I was guessing that I was going to have to guesstimate, I just wanted someone with more knowledge than me to tell me. That way I wasn`t shooting in the dark.
I`ve talked to mr. Hatfield and yes he can make them for me. but I like to do them myself, since I`m retired or as my wife say`s (retarded), I got plenty of time to tinker with them.
I got a couple of Corbin`s old book`s, and he touches lightly on them. the books are about 20 years old, as are my Mity Mite presses which I bout way back then. Thank`s
444 :D
 

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Understand about the do-it-yourself position. I think those tables about jacket/core configurations are in either one of Mr Corbin's 'special' booklets, or on his DOS programs. I have them, but not with me here in Winter quarters. One of the things I ended up making was a series of rings from .05 to .3" high that fit onto the round over punch's step that held the cut tube as its end is rounded over. They are of the same diameter as the tube's OD and help make shorter jackets. I use them on my .375 Jacket maker when making the initial cups for .358s, ,348s, and .338s. You wouldn't believe just how much a .338 tube jacket is compared to it's short, fatter .375 parrent! Mr Corbin's newly offered adjustable punch is a better idea thou. And, the Mity Mite press's only holdup is that it can only handle M dies. I prefer it over the CSP-1 when using those dies. By the way, Retarded is with a capital 'R'!!! (me too). 8)
 

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talon:

I was considering the same thing myself. Making "extensions" to fit on my end rounding punches so I could make shorter jackets with my existing punches. I mentioned the idea to Corbin, and (of course) he told me it wasn't practical (he wouldn't be able to sell me as many additional punches if I went that way :roll: ).

I bought one of the adjustable core seating punches (the centre "hollow point" extension is adjustable). I hadn't realized that there was an adjustable end rounding punch available. I think I may look into it.

Rick
 

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Rick, Mr Corbin is probably correct about the rings not being practical from a very general point of view. But they cost me about 30 cents each and his adjustable punch, about $75 (if I had bought one). I'm sure his punch is a better idea if you discount cash outlay. Actually, those rings are a by-product when I made a bunch of those washers that fit on the stems of external punches. I just thought "Hay, rather than discarding this surplus length of hardened 3/8th" hollow tubing now that I have all the punch washers I'll ever need (the little rascals disappear on their own), why not cut a bunch of various size rings to fit my .375 jacket maker round over punch to be used one at a time, or some stacked together, to achieve various shorter jackets". It dfinately works, but I make jackets in limited numbers and take my time. Those rings are brittle and somewhat easy to break if you aren't careful. I don't think I would have thought of the idea IF that adjustable length punch had existed then. 8)
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Swaging Press

Hi Talon;
I have a question that maybe you can answer or anybody out there. As I was saying in an earlier post, I have an older Mity Mite press. You made the comment that you liked it better than the CSP-1, my question is why? I hate change, call me old fashion, but when I bought these presses, back about 20 years ago, I thought that`s all I`ll ever need and then wham, bam, Corbin comes out with more different types. Which made my outdated sort of. I love the Mity-Mites but now I`m thinking about RCE Co New one called Walnut Hill Swaging Press. Any input from anyone about it would be greatly appreciated. Does anyone out there have one?
Thanks:
444 :eek:
 

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The mity mite ISN'T obsolete! the CSP-1, and it's current upgrade do not improve swaging (my opinion). The newer presses do allow for 'S' dies and the use of reloading dies, but these are increased capabilities, not improvements on the basic swaging function. Too, it's a lot easier and neater to have 3, 4 , 5 or 6 mity mites lined up doing work than the same number of CSP-1s. As Corbin Co is "getting out of" making M dies, and has stopped production of Mity Mites (Silver Press), it really pays to hang on to thses older presses. Of course, if you have S dies, the older presses are unusable. As far as the Walnut Press of RCE Co is concerned, I've never used one, so I can't comment other than saying it's worth your while to go to that web site, as well as Corbins.com, and compare the similar wares. (note that RCE has a thread converter to handle M and S dies, but I don't think the CSP-1 can handle the Walnut Hill die series.) 8)
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Old mity mite presses

Your right Talon, I got 3 of the Mity Mite Presses, and I`m going to hang on to them. Thanks for your advice.
444 :wink:
 

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bullet length

dave corbin has a program for your computer that does this vary nicley and for a small price. your other choice is to make two bullets of different length. take the differance in length and devide it into the weight differance and you have a length calculater starting at the smaller length. it is not 100 % but it works pretty good.

if you give me your bullet dim. i can run the calc for you no problem and send you the print outs.

butch hairfield
 

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Discussion Starter #11
bullet length

Howdy Butch;
OK. My bullet dia. is .429. I want to make a bullet that will weigh 265 grs.I will be using copper tubing that has a wall thickness of .035 thickness.
The bullet is for my 444 marlin.
Thanks :D
bullet maker
 

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over all length on a 2 cal ogive .918
assuming a .062 tip dia.
the things i need to do the calcs are as follows
bullet dia
tip dia
over all weight
ogive
with this info i can do the calc properly

butch hairfield
note if you send a email to me directly i can send you the sheet on the calc.
butch
[email protected]
 

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Discussion Starter #13
OAL of 444 bullet

Hi Butch.
Bullet Dia. .429
Tip Dia.? I don`t know. let`s say .062
Overall weight; 265 grs.
Ogive; 2 ogive.
Hope that`s the information you need. I apreciate it.
bullet maker :D
 

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BULLET INFO

OK HEAR WE GO
THE SHANK LENGTH WILL BE APP .385
CORE WEIGHT WILL BE APP 195 GR
THE OGIVE LENGTH WILL BE APP .530
I AM ALSO ASSUMING THE CUP WEIGHS ABOUT 70 GR
IF YOU SEND ME A DIRECT EMAIL I CAN SEND YOU THE PRINT OUT WITH ALL THE PERTANT DATA.

it sounds like you are just getting started into this bullet making. i have been making my own jacketed bullets for about 20 years. i do not sell them because there is nothing special about them just hole punchers and meat getters. what i have found is that there are lots of people out there that need cups for 338 and up so this is why i am getting into the cup making business. i make cups from 50 bmg 2.5 inches long all the way down to 5 mm but have been having trouble with the smaller dies and will have that worked out this year. also i will be adding shot gun slug cups to my list as soon as i get the dies from richard.
all my cups are made from copper strip. what i do is sell the strip or round blanks from the strip or raw drawn cups to people like your self at various prices. by selling the cup blanks in coin or after the first cup draw ( blank coin to cup ) this allows you to do all the rest of the work your self and save money. you do not have to mess with the 100 lb rolls of copper or getting rid of the scrap from them. just the scrap from when you trim the cup. also this gives you a varity to choose from.
.930 / 1.00 / 1.125 / 1.185 / 1.260 in dia and thickness ranging from .032 to .090. if you are willing to buy the whole roll of copper i will purchase it or you can purchase it and have it drop shipped to me and i will take care of the blanking for you for a small fee. this i have found goes further to help everyone have fun and enjoy the world of swaging more than anything.

so enjoy and let me know if i can be of further assistance
in thickness
BUTCH

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Discussion Starter #15
OK, thanks Butch
bullet maker :D
 
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