[beemanbeme]

I was at Gander Mountain the other day and the place was busy, busy, busy with guys buying their kids and wives various kinds of single shot rifles. Some of the kids looked to be 8 or 9 years old. And the calibres of choice was (you guessed it) .223 and .243.
It's too close to the season opening for the kids to do too much practicing and I wondered about the fathers putting their kids in the woods with a marginal cartridge to begin with and then further handicapping them with a single shot rifle. Then it dawned on me that the fathers might be putting their kids (and wives) in the woods with something in their hands so they, the fathers, could fill their tags.
What do you guys think?

 

[Dillohide]

Nothing wrong with buying your kid a single shot rifle. I've got half a dozen Handi rifles I bought for myself, not to mention extra barrels. They are great American made deer rifles. Short and easy to maneuver making them perfect for a kid ... and adult. Easy safety because if the hammer isn't pulled back it won't fire. Don't think a .243 is a marginal deer caliber but I do agree that a .223 is. Teaching a young deer hunter the value of the first shot is important.

 

[skb2706]

My personal opinion is that cheap single shot, minimal caliber guns are a crappy choice for first time hunters. Besides typically having terrible triggers they can be cumbersome to operate for small hands. After going thru the CF varmint rifle stage with my son using various used rifles I bought for cheap. I bought him a .260 Remington LSS Mtn. It will be an excellent deer/antelope rifle for the rest of his life. Great trigger, great scope, light weight perfect chambering.
When I go into the woods I can assure you I am not sending my son in with substandard equipment....his rivals mine all day.

 

[barr25-06]

The open hammer single shot is a great gun to start with.
The small bores are purely for less recoil.
A lot of the guys have started getting a 30/30 or 357mag instead.
Harder hitting and more blood trail.
Both can be gotten in lower recoil loads for practice too.

 

[SHOOTALL]

maybe the Govt. has a conspiracy going to make fathers buy these single shot rifles ! just kidding !
i started with a single shot 410 , hunted everything from quail to turkey to deer !
after going thru that my sons started with a cut down 870 in 12 ga. and both killed deer , when they moved up to a rifle one used an SKS and the other a BAR . and killed deer ! I don't shoot as many deer today because they fill the freezer up first !
as to your ? yep I'm sure some do as you say , i hunted with a guy who would bring a kid or two each season just so he could use their doe tag , bet that left a good taste in a future hunters mouth !
I would tell ya what we call these guys but this is a family site !

 

[backstrap]

Single shot rifle are great for kids to start out with safe and make them try harder at shooting good only have 1 shot at the animal if they cant shoot good enough with a single shot and put the deer down on the first shot and need a back up shot like a bolt gun maybe its to Early for them to be in the woods, and as far as putting the kids and wife in the woods for the dad to shoot i dont think there is any kid that if he has shot a few times and a deer comes by close enough his not going to try to fill his own tag i bet he tries and for the wife i bet she tries to and if they dont and need of the meat there is nothing wrong with dad takeing the deer for them

 

[quickdtoo]

Yup, this close to the season, I'd be inclined to think that dad's goal was to fill another tag or two, just like buying one for the wife who doesn't really hunt. Any father that wants to start a youth that young will be responsible and start shooting whatever he chooses a lot sooner than this time of year.

I'm all for an inexpensive single shot break barrel or hammer gun for a starter firearm, my first centerfire was an H&R 12ga when I was 8yrs old, my oldest son started with a M94 30-30 cuz his grandpa(my FIL) gave it to him when he was 9, and my youngest had a 20gr Pardner single shot when he first started shooting. I don't see a darned thing wrong with em, at that age they need supervision no matter what you start them on, might as well start em with the idea that one shot is all ya need, so make the shot count. Many state sponsored Hunter Education programs used NEF Sportsters exclusively for their hands on training.

Tim


http://www.go2gbo.com/forums/index.php/topic,129778.msg1098476167.html#msg1098476167

http://www.go2gbo.com/forums/index.php/topic,129279.msg1098472474.html#msg1098472474

http://www.go2gbo.com/forums/index.php/topic,129270.msg1098472423.html#msg1098472423

http://www.go2gbo.com/forums/index.php/topic,129121.msg1098471385.html#msg1098471385

 

[SHOOTALL]

I'll take the pump add a longer plug to limit cap. works great and don't have to worry about hammer slipping ! and as kid shows skill he has a good gun that he knows how to operate !

 

[Don Fischer]

I guess I'd like to think that dad's really aren't like that. What I think is happening is many dad's listen to a whole lot of bad advice. But are really trying to get their kid something he/she can shoot comfortably, safely and powerful enough for deer. The upper echelons of intelligence in the shooting world have dismissed cartridges such as the 250-3000 as less than desirable. The 260 should be a great starting place but sounds like it'll take a dirt nap! Those of us really in the know want the whole world to know that the Savage, especially the 110, is a POS and there fore a waste of money. Remember the Mossberg 800? don't ever remember reading anything good about it but, people I know that had them liked them.

So whats left for these people that actually buy into the crapola being fed them? Inexpensive guns in inadequate cartridges. I can't think of any rifle sold in this country that is not well made from a safety stand point. But there are many I wouldn't own for one reason or another. I also think that cartridges like the 250-3000, 257 Roberts and 260 Rem fill a much more needed nich than any of the new magnum's out or the 204!

 

[bhod1]

Unfortunately, there are more dads like that than you think.

I hope you are being sarcastic about the Savage and the 110. But the 260 is a great low recoil deer cartridge, should be far more popular than it is.

"Inexpensive guns in inadequate cartridges" I own 3 NEF 243s, 1 each for my wife and 2 kids. They're not pretty, nor do they have the 'right' name stamped into them. They just kill deer.

By the way there are guns out there that are not safe. A gentleman at the range bought a brand new Rem 308 pump that would do no better than 5" at 100yds. He passed it to his son, the son took a hold of it by the barrel, and the barrel fell off right in his hands. They were real lucky no-one was killed.

Winchester went out of business- for a reason. If we are lucky remington will be right behind them, they are absolute garbage.

 

[Don Fischer]

Yes about the 110. I don't think I'd call any Rem or Win unsafe. That something slipped thru the cracks, happens all the time. I doubt winchester went out of business over unsafe guns.

 

[SHOOTALL]

Winchester didn't go out of business they just stopped producing guns in a factory that had over priced its labor for the quality they turned out !

 

[beemanbeme]

I bought a NIB Remington CDL the other day. In 7-08. I'd given my son my Classic in 7-08 and that cut me back to two others so I was getting kinda nervous. I cleaned it and mounted a 2x7 Leuy on it in those ugly old Weaver rings. The scope had been centered.
When I set it up on the bench, I peeped thru the bore and then the scope and it looked like I might be on the overall target at 100 yards so I thought I'd give it a try and then adjust. Using some 7-08 ammo I'd loaded up for a different rifle, I fired 5 rounds. The first 5 rounds thru this new rifle formed a roundish group 1.25" accross that was 2" high and 1" to the right of center. In other words, if I had been shooting at a deer, he would have been dead, dead, dead!
Not too shabby for garbage.
Had the stupid people with the "brand new Rem 308 pump gun" (must be a new model I ain't heard of) had of cleaned the rifle when they took it out of the box or even went thru the normal manipulations to make sure every thing is okay, I think they would have discovered the loose barrel. Seems like just last week I read about a fellow that had the barrel of his Sako come off whilst in a hunting blind. Must be an epidemic.

 

[crow_feather]

I started my daughter on black powder. A 45 caliber CVA Kentucky Rifle. She was resting it on the bench and shooting it when she was eight. I would load it for her. She liked the black powder mystique and got really good with that rifle before she got center fire. I wanted her to know that you had to kill quickly with the first shot or you didn't take the shot. Young people on their own in the woods tend to take extra "Hail Mary" shots without checking the background. I prefer my kids have a rifle that they at least have to take off their shoulder before their second shot. It gives them a chance to see what is happening down range before they pull the trigger.

Black powder also teaches kids the items needed for ammunition and is the first step towards them some day reloading their own.

Another great rifle for youngsters are some of the lighter 30-40 Krags. They might have a rainbow arc with the 220 grain bullets, but deer or elk hit out to 200 yds with the 220 bullet seldom get back up.

C F

 

[.54]

There's nothing wrong with starting a kid with a single shot rifle or shotgun. My dad started me squirrel hunting with a single shot .22. Taught me to make each shot count. My youngest took his first buck with a single shot side lock muzzle loader.
I think a lot of it may be financially that a lot of fathers just can't afford to buy high end guns for their kids. I had 3 sons and what I did for one I felt obligated to do for the others so buying rifles and shotguns for them could get expensive. They each got Remington 870's (we slug hunt in Ohio)...and they still hunt with them today.

 

[pigguy]

I bought my son a handi in 243 and he took his 1st deer on the 1st day hunting at 10 yrs old.Then my ex step son used it for his 1st deer on his 1st hunt,he was 9.This saturday is opening day of modern gun here in oklahoma,and I am taking my 11 year old neice on her 1st deer hunt.Hope to keep the streak going!One thing is for sure,this "little" gun is up to the task,in spades.simple to operate ,low recoil,extremely accurate and have a hard time keeping it out of ADULT hands.Its just a blast to shoot,even if it has a low pedigree

 

[whiskey101]

Some men may have been buying rifles to add kids and wives tags to fill.

However, I think that most hunting Americans spend far to little effort considering range time and proficiency before going hunting. Personally, I have hunted with people that have bought a gun, put a scope on and hunted without firing a full box of shells through it. I have hunted with a guy that only bore sighted the scope. I have hunted with guys that own a bow and never practice. They pull the bow out and go hunting. Then they don't understand why the miss or worse yet why they wounded a deer and then couldn't find it. I makes me angry and I have had to choose to not hunt with friends because of this lack of concern.

I think many men were handed a gun and put in a tree and that is how they learned to deer hunt. This is how they will teach their son's to deer hunt. Maybe they bought a cheap BB gun at Wally world and expected their kid to learn to be a marksman with it. I see it all the time at the range this time of year. Guys that have not been at the range all year long. They show up a week or two before season to "sight in" their new gun. They shoot from a bench and fire less than 10 shots..."Look I got her sighted in and got enough shells to get me though the season."

I think that each year it gets worse. Just fewer and fewer skilled hunters passing along the skills they were taught. More and more guys read about hunting in magazines from blow hard writers and believe they have all the answers to be the best trophy hunter around. I was taught about hunting from a hunter. I was not taught enough. I had to spend time in the woods learning things on my own that I should have been taught. I have read the magazines and learned things too. I have listened to older hunters. But most importantly I have spent time in the woods. All the teaching, reading and listening can not replace spending time in the woods watching deer from dawn to dusk. Ok enough ranting. Most of us are gun guys. We enjoy shooting with or without hunting. We are also hunters, so we enjoy getting ready for hunting season. Going to the range, tweaking guns and loads. Researching which round/bullet/scope/gun is best for what we want. We enjoy it. Too many others are just in a hurry to get to deer season so they can get out of the house, drink beer with buddies and hopefully kill a deer. Not that I don't look forward to those things too.

 

[SHOOTALL]

lets face it some hunters are like Tiger Woods , and others are like the guy who plays PUTT-PUTT at the beach every few years !
That's what ya get in the land of the free !

 

[montveil]

I feel that one of the basic rules of marksmanship is first shot kills. If one can't hit the target the first time what makes one think he can recover from recoil, regain a sight picture, squeeze off a better shot the second time at possibly spooked game.

The discipline learned with a single shot rifle will stand a youngster well.

As far as calibers, rifles such a handis can be purchased with multiple barrels. I would be great to get a lighter caliber for chucks,etc and practice to reduce the possibility of recoil and muzzle blast flinches.

Ig the gun is fun to shoot and accurate the youngster will practice and become a good shot.

 

[SHOOTALL]

the single shot theory is good but any gun can be loaded with only one round ! and some may wish ( as I did ) to have a gun that can be used for life , with multi shot ability . I started with a single shot , have hunted with a Ruger # 1 and a TC encore both . To be honest I like a rifle that has more than one shot , we hunt where more than one deer can be taken in the same day , at the same time . Also the bolt gun and in some cases the pump and auto all have their good points and in most cases are heavier and cut down on kick more than a light single shot ( had a 300WM in the encore ).