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Discussion Starter · #1 ·

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Re: Did he REALLY say that?

I suspect that it is true based on historic Catholic rhetoric.
While it is essential, to Catholic theology, to believe that Christ is who He says He is--there is a butttttt installed---and that involves Holiness.
Blessings
 

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Re: Did he REALLY say that?

NOT my words, from another forum:

The Pope said "that we are followers of Jesus Christ and his life, humanly speaking, ended in failure, the failure of the cross."

Did everyone miss the key word here? "HUMANLY SPEAKING"

He's saying that dying on the cross from a human perspective seems like failure a fact confirmed by Jesus followers. They believed Jesus death was the end despite Jesus telling them it wouldn't be.

Humanly speaking how could be nailed to a cross by those who hate you ever be considered a success?

I'm staunchly anti-RCC (both from doctrine, rituals and historical viewpoints) but the Pope is absolute right when he says "humanly speaking" the cross was a failure.

Note he was making the very obvious point that sometimes what we see as failure is either just part of our learning process else actually a success but not in the way we think.

The only way to see the cross as a success is to accept Jesus as saviour and accept He rose from the grace and conquered death. Humanly speaking you cannot do this as it takes faith. Without faith the cross is a failure.[/color]​
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Re: Did he REALLY say that?

I guess that depends upon our individual interpretation of "humanly" means. According to the transcript read, he said "the failure of Jesus, the failure of the cross"[/color].. I suppose I viewed it from Jesus' perspective, certainly there was no failure of the cross and positively no failure where Jesus is concerned!. Being both man and God, it is clear that our Savior knew..both his human side and his God side (deity), that it would result in victory. ..And of course we as Christian humans know, it was a complete victory.
Jesus was well aware that he would be "delivered up" to be crucified, and that his blood would seal the New Covenant and would turn the captives free. He even said he would go to his father..and would return to take us back with him.
He knew the whole plan..that is the reason why with his last breath he said "it is finished".
His redemptive work on the cross was accomplished and the devil was also finished...
 

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Re: Did he REALLY say that?

Bob's insightful post is correct.
 

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Re: Did he REALLY say that?

cpileri said:
Bob's insightful post is correct.
Yes!


The only way to see the cross as a success is to accept Jesus as saviour and accept He rose from the grace and conquered death. Humanly speaking you cannot do this as it takes faith. Without faith the cross is a failure.
 

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Re: Did he REALLY say that?

There's nothing in the Cross that represents "success". It was about "sacrifice". Christ offered Himself as "the PERFECT SACRAFICE. Any "success" goes to Christ AFTER The Cross, as He is the one whom defeated death, and rose on the third day.
MAN is the "failure" in not accepting salvation by grace thru faith. This pope convolutes Christianity more than his predecessors, and that's sayin a lot.
 

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Re: Did he REALLY say that?

If this isn't a whos who of who hates this country I donno!


•Jane Mansbridge, Harvard University


•Gerald Hudson, Service Employees International Union


•Annie Leonard, Greenpeace USA


•Robert B. Reich, University of California at Berkeley


•Dean Baker, Center for Economic and Policy Research


•Barbara Ehrenreich, Author


•Jeffrey D. Sachs, Columbia University


•Gerald Torres, Cornell University Law School


•Larry Cohen, Communications Workers of America


•Julie Matthaei, Cornerstone Cohousing


•Leo Gerard, United Steelworkers


•Rep. John James Conyers, Jr., 13th District, Michigan


•Bill McKibben, 350.org


•Saskia Sassen, Columbia University


•Frances Fox Piven, City University of New York


•Manuel Pastor, University of Southern California


•J. Phillip Thompson, Massachusetts Institute of Technology


•Oliver Stone, Academy Award-winning Filmmaker


•Medea Benjamin, CODEPINK


•Timothy E. Wirth, United Nations Foundation and Better World Fund


•Sarita Gupta, Jobs With Justice


•Noam Chomsky, Massachusetts Institute of Technology


•Van Jones, The Dream Corps & Rebuild The Dream


•Lawrence Mishel, Economic Policy Institute


•Roxanne Dunbar-Ortiz, California State University


•Daniel Ellsberg, Author


•Herman E. Daly, University of Maryland


•Ralph Nader, Consumer Advocate, Author, Former Presidential Candidate


•Ai-jen Poo, National Domestic Workers Alliance


•Anna Galland, MoveOn.org Civic Action


•Danny Glover, Actor, Social Activist


•Tom Morello, Musician, Activist


•Jill Stein, 2012 Green Party Presidential Nominee


•Nancy Fraser, New School for Social Research
 
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