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Discussion Starter · #21 ·
Hey ! ...Something is wrong....I find myself agreeing completely with FW..!
Seriously; FW has articulated the point very well...

So the management is sometimes ridiculously greedy...and will sell out long term interests for short term gain. Those individuals are trying to " get theirs and get out"..before the whole thing falls apart.
That is perhaps the top 2 or 3 in management involved...if they choose to sacrifice thousands of jobs for their greedy lucre.
Although the union members demand what they know to be exorbitant renumeration...they are thousands...and with their collective bargaining wedge, can drive a corporation to make stupid " get mine and get out before the whole thing comes down " decisions...

Do two wrongs make a right ???

The county I spoke of is Erie county in NY, with Buffalo as it's major city.
A few years ago, teacher's contract came up...with the City already in difficult financial straits.
BR's mom making 38K is about where new teachers were starting at in Buffalo....but the union demanded a huge increase, across the package.

They had the " elected leaders" over a barrel...

How so ?
Well, as I said...this benighted state is basically a "one party" the unions have most of the politicians in their back pocket..
no re-election.
The politicians were getting pressure from the voters to open the votes, no re-election...

So, a "political decision" was made. The pols of the time decided to "get ours and get out"....both the politicians and the union "sold out" the taxpayers they claim to be "serving".

A few years ago the TRICO company was located in Buffalo...that is where they were invented and where they continued to make windshield wiper products....
One day the union bosses decided to ask for big increases...their pay was already at a pretty decent scale..
Negotiations ensued..couldn't agree..

Remember all negotiations were for MORE bennies for the union, not any movement was all positive for the union members..
The company several times offered what it could..union says "NO"!

Finally TRICO says; " Can't give any would break our company, so here's our final offer...".

After some time for consideration, the union said in effect.." we think you're bluffing (lying)".

Do any of you guys know where TRICO wiper blades are being made ?

They're not being made in Buffalo...

BR...I am sure your Mom is a fine lady and her situation may be very different than many around here..

Here, teachers get a decent wage, yet some still complain about it..
When they complain, they may mention teacher's wages...and exhibit only the starting wages...not the wages of those with some extra bennies and seniority..
As a non-teacher I would have liked to have my old wages..perhaps equivalent to a starting teacher wage....along with the teacher's other "extras"...such as:

A) Work 180 days per year.

B) Of that 180 days, have for the most part perhaps 30 or more paid "sick days"

C) Any "sick days" I don't use I can accumulate...and take home a nice nest egg when I retire.

( I was one of those guys that would usually go several years between sick days).

D) Be able to attain "tenure", whereby if I felt so inclined, I could lapse into complete incompetency, confident that my job was safe..

E) Retire with accumulated bennies that totaled up, would surprise many people..depending on tax complete medical , dental and health insurance paid etc., etc.
I have a brother and sister-in-law that recently retired with about $106 K per year between them , not counting their investments, SS or other sources...just pension...and in this state where the unions own the politicians they pay NO state tax on their the rest of us do..

Now , they were very competent and never complained about their wages as some do incessantly....but the incompetents get the same package ...

The city of Buffalo was once called " The Queen city of the Great Lakes", but now is turning into a backwater has-been...but it is still a strong "union town"..(what has the union done for them ?)

That city has perhaps 1/2 the population that it had in 1950. Unfortunately, as in many such is the workers and go-getters that leave....those on the public dole that prospects are not great.
There is much to offer industry...abundant electric, abundant water, transportation etc...but the labor/political/tax climate is not condusive for industry to locate here.
The situation could be saved, but don't hold your breath...
The politicians could make NY a "right-to-work" state...allowing fair competition on job bids and open competition for labor and markets.

But alas...the unions OWN most of the the politicians will get theirs, get their fat pension and move out of state (in spite of their special tax break) and let the area die...

...And it all started with the "people", not being smart enough to change their political leaders often a baby's diaper...and for the same reasons...

....Food for thought..................Ironglow

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42,257 Posts
Discussion Starter · #22 ·
TM7 & BRdavis..

Interesting how you blame GW for the illegal immigration problem, and globalization..

I think both major political parties are at fault...and in this case "a pox on both their houses".

To illustrate your bias:

Immigration: So Bush is responsible for for the continuation of the stream of illegals...
Which, pray tell...Demoncrat is fighting such intrusions into our soverignty ? Teddy, Barney, Eleanor Holmes norton, Kerry, Biden, Dr. Dean ( of the Dean-Witter millionaires)Demo party chairman ?...Or perhaps "Sheets" Byrd...?

Seems the Dems are the ones sponsoring drivers licenses, medical care and multi-lingual classes for the "illegals"...( let's not play Liberal word games, such as "undocumented" ).

Seems like it's the very liberal ACLU (Dems fellow-travellers) that is trying to keep the Minute men from securing our borders....

Correct me if I am wrong, but the only voices I hear on the subject that are speaking out strongly against the illegal border crossings are Republicans...A. Schwarznegger, Tom Tancredo, John Kyl, J R Hayworth and others...


Wasn't BJ Clinton big on globalization.....surely that is the aim of the UN, which wants to "globalize" everything... and the Dems are all for the UN.
Only the Republican/ Conservatives seem to want to call the UN by it's proper name...a bunch of "bait-and-switch" bribe takers..

The Dems are even fighting at this very moment, against the appointment of a UN delegate that might expose that gang of flim-flam shake-down artists for what they are....

Please be honest with yourself...the ones that are truly for one-world govt are the Dems..

Remember "It Takes a Village"...well it takes a "village idiot" to fall for the smoke screen...

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Well from what I have read here they want to blame the upper management for their lack of achievement in the feed trough, well fellows where to you think they get the upper management people it from the group who isnt satisfied to have someone else speak for them, they are the ones who have enough backbone to get the education and to succeed in life, I came out of the auto industry, started on the line and and saw what the union was like, every year every job had a para. 78 written (TOO MUCH WORK) for those who dont know even if the job didnt change or no line speed increase, there are usually 2% of the work force who are usually the trouble employes, the rest will do their assigned jobs, now the union spends 98% of their time helping the 2% and the 98% get 2% of the unions assistance, If you think the union is for you try and talk them into forgiving the union dues that they TAKE out of your pay and see who will be doing the screaming, Monday when you go into work look around and see the fellow emp. take a good look and see who is really putting forth a good days work and the sluffers and then think back and remember which ones are the constant one with the union stewart holding their hand, now I am sure you think I am anti union or as another poster said once negatiove well ok be it so but I have always felt I was man enough to state my own case and didnt need another to hold my hand do it for me, :D JIM

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14 Posts
Iron Glow - you are right about what government employes get,even in the Uk they have 6months full pay sick and 6 months half pay sick, the government pays 11% of there salary value into there pensions,susidized loans etc but the unions do not have to fight that hard for this as the people who make the final decision are the people who will benefit the government employes. As for immigration both your parties are to blame as only people from 3rd world countrys can get in, unless you are sponsored by a company, the Us only wants cheap labour, the theory being this will keep jobs in the US, but what it is really doing is driving down the living standards of the working classes.

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605 Posts
Probably not fair to lump muncipal workers in with others who have to produce a marketable product or perform a service for a customer who can go elsewhere. Teachers, police, firefighters, garbagemen, dpw, parks & rec here all have unions to protect them but since a taxpayer has no option they dont even almost have to deal with reality.

I'v been union & nonunion thru the years & am certainly not your average "union guy" but the fact is, in construction here in CT union & nonunion compete against one another & I suppose keep one another in check. We are a right to work state & I think its a good thing.
The only difference between the company I work for now & the one I left to come here is my benefits. My old boss paid me about the same wage & charges guys out at the exact same rate. Only difference is he gets to keep an extra $8 or $10 per hour that my present boss pays in benefits.

I think the right to work idea has strong merit as it lets the independent guys in to keep the unions real, otherwise they turn into a municipal type work force who doesnt need to perform to collect a check, just put in time.
Big difference is it can drive a buisness into the ground or out of the area, a town on the other hand just raises taxes till the old people move out & new ones who dont remember what it was like before, move in & pay their taxes like good little boys & girls.
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