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Discussion Starter #1
Did you ever wonder why the folks in DC rail about Cuba while at the same time shilling for communist China. Here is the US keeping a Cuba embargo in place after 50 years. No one may legally travel to Cuba without going through the Mother may I process. Any US citizen is allowed to travel to communist China.

The current bunch in the White House refuses to crack down on China for multiple attempts to poison US citizens with their poorly made junk. At the same time they rail against Castro and Cuba. Cuba has not kidnapped any US sailors recently. Cuba has not blinded US satellites-communist China did that, yet we continue to import their cheap junk.
 

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!!
 

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Notwithstanding,,,Cuba is very desirable real estate.
China,,,helped/responsible for two shooting wars with us.

,,,TM7
 

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Discussion Starter #4
"Notwithstanding,,,Cuba is very desirable real estate.
China,,,helped/responsible for two shooting wars with us."

Exactly. Politicians never take any lesson from history. They never heard of the Korean War and the Viet Nam War. All they care about is lining their pockets.


"Cuba almost got their butt kicked when they brought in Russian inter continental ballistic missiles that had no purpose being there except to be used against the U.S."

The USSR put medium range ballistic missiles in Cuba because of our Jupiter missiles in Turkey. Prior to the Cuban missile crisis, Kennedy had wanted the US missiles removed from Turkey. Kennedy made a deal with the Soviets. The US Jupiter missiles came out of Turkey soon after the Cuban crisis ended:



http://library.thinkquest.org/11046/days/brink.html



"This letter sent EX-COMM reeling. Khrushchev's previous proposal had not mentioned Turkey. Why did it do so now? Unknown to the entire committee was Robert Kennedy's discussion with Ambassador Dobrynin the night before. Neither of the Kennedys had informed the committee about the meeting because of one reason: leaks. Too much information on the crisis had already been leaked to the press. Kennedy feared having someone go public with the Turkey proposal because it could potentially ruin his career. If the U.S. buckled under pressure and removed its missiles from Turkey, a NATO ally, the whole alliance could falter. A political enemy would have a field day holding Kennedy responsible for the Turkey proposal. One can sense the President's caution in suggesting the idea of a Turkey-for-Cuba missile trade in this transcript of an EX-COMM meeting."


"JFK: He's (Khrushchev) got us in a pretty good spot here, because most people will regard this (the new letter) as not an unreasonable proposal, I'll just tell you that. In fact, in many ways--
Bundy (interrupts): But what most people, Mr. President? "

"JFK: I think you're going to find it very difficult to explain why we are going to take hostile military action in Cuba against these sites--what we've been thinking about--the thing that he's saying is, 'If you'll get yours out of Turkey, we'll get ours out of Cuba.'...We can't very well invade Cuba with all its toll when we could have gotten the missiles out by making a deal on the same missiles in Turkey. If that's part of the record I don't see how we'll have a very good war."

"Kennedy was frustrated even more by the fact that he had wanted to remove the old, unreliable Jupiter missiles months before the crisis. Furthermore, Cuban missiles were not on par with Turkish missiles. The strategic value of the missiles in Cuba was immensely larger than the strategic value of the missiles in Turkey. Now Khrushchev wanted to make a public display of having the Jupiters removed."


If restrictions on travel were removed, Cuba would be a tourist mecca. The Cuban government would be forced to change their ways. i would rather pay for a product made in Cuba than one made by the red Chinese. If the US does not soon engage Cuba in a positive way: The Red Chinese will soon have nuclear tipped missiles in Cuba; paid for by all that cheap Chinese junk US consumers swoon over.
 

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I'm sick of letting the ex-Batista cronies in the Cuban "exile" community dictate U.S. policy. If they want Fidel and company out, let them do what Castro did when Batista was in power--go to Cuba and throw him out! Did you know that Fidel Castro passed up a major league baseball contract to lead a revolution (without outside support) against a gangster-backed dictator? The good Republican businessmen in the Eisenhower government couldn't accept the loss of their crony, so cut off Castro. Of course he went to the Russians! Cubans living in the U.S. who piss and moan about Castro (while enjoying special status here) really tick me off! And the continued embargo is one of the stupidest things ever. The most effective way to change Cuba is to open full, free trade and normal relations. There is nothing more erosive to a closed society than exposure to American culture.
 

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Have you ever wondered what the revolution was about?

Castro was trying for ownership of the oil refineries that used to be there. That was the original purpose of the embargo. I don't think the embargo matters any more because the refineries are probably too broken down to renovate, but Castro, or his brother, might just say the heck with the environmentalists and okay building replacements, and I really doubt either Castro is going to worry about pollution concerns.

The exiles tried to retake Cuba (Bay of Pigs). The invasion was set up under Eisenhower. Kennedy could not cancel US assistance, so he sabotaged the invasion by having the invasion rerouted to the most dangerous beach possible and by refusing to release the air support he (or, actually, Eisenhower) had promised.
 

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Yes; I have often wondered that ! Even more startling was that the Clinton admin gave the Chicoms "most favored nation" trading status..and a superhighway into our markets !

Perhaps that will be explained if they ever delve into the multi million $$$ donations from "little people" that the postman, Mr chu funneled to both Bill and now Hillery's campaigns...

..And the Bush admin has done nothing to help, unless this "lead" thing is one way of undercutting the "most favored nation" problem we're stuck with..
 

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Russian missiles in Cuba, I helped train a group of individuals in Panama that may have contributed to the missiles being put there.......ever hear of "The Bay of Pigs?"

We came very close to a major war during this incident, luckily cooler heads prevailed.
 

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I would like to visit there. Alot of Hemingway stuff there they love him, me too Castro won't last much longer maybe then.
 

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I believe they are just waiting for the old tyrant to die; then perhaps the Cuban people will "take care of business".
 

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Discussion Starter #11
"Yes; I have often wondered that ! Even more startling was that the Clinton admin gave the Chicoms "most favored nation" trading status..and a superhighway into our markets !
Perhaps that will be explained if they ever delve into the multi million $$$ donations from "little people" that the postman, Mr shu funneled to both Bill and now Hillery's campaigns..."

Chu must have thrown a few shekels at the Republicans in congress. Gingrinch and nearly every Republican in the house voted for China's most favored nation status.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1571/is_n26_v13/ai_19601313

"On June 24 the House of Representatives, on a 259-173 vote, supported President Clinton's decision to renew "most favored nation," or MFN, trade status for the People's Republic of China. The vote came after a gut-wrenching debate that highlighted the fissures in both parties about policy toward the last Communist world power. Rep. Gerald Solomon, the, conservative New York Republican who had been at the forefront of opposition, stood and applauded House Minority Leader Richard Gephardt for the Missouri Democrat's passionate speech attacking the Beijing regime's human-rights record, arguably the worst in world history.

The speaker of the House, who by tradition rarely votes, made a point of voting for MFN, as did 146 Republicans and 112 Democrats. Other House Republican leaders, including Majority Leader Dick Armey and Ways and Means Committee Chairman Bill Archer, both of Texas, and Republican Conference Chairman John Boehner of Ohio supported renewing trade benefits to Beijing. John Kasich, the Ohio Republican who chairs the House Budget Committee -- and who, like Gephardt, reportedly is considering a White House bid -- voted against the extension, as did International Relations Committee Chairman Ben Gilman of New York."
 

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Alsaqr;

I find it interesting that you shift the blame for "most favored nation" onto the house Republicans (who deserve some of it) and away from the one person who could have vetoed it and stopped it in it's tracks !...hmmm

..And you only mention Chu in passing..saying he must have bought off Republicans..when everything we seem to know about him shows him giving millions of non-traceable dollars to
the Clintons..

Did you notice that ?

Does it raise your suspicions even a little bit ?

Not being Republican or Democrat I can see faults on both sides..
..The Republicans, who have partially abandoned important, old Republican principles and the Democrats who seem to champion slovenly, perverted lifestyles and haven't met a tinpot, Commie style dictator they don't like..
 

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It sure didn't take long for this topic about Cuba to turn into a Republican bashing topic. With that said, I'm out of this one......have at it.
 

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Rockbilly;

Interesting you should have mentioned the Bay of pigs. The Cuban exiles were training for some time in preparation to take back their homeland.
On April 17, 1961 they stormed ashore on the bay of Pigs. They were promised and fully expected to receive support from the US Navy and Air Force.
However, when they fell into real trouble, the aircraft carriers a few miles offshore did nothing and the Air Force apparently stood down.

I was disappointed with JFK, since I had voted for him. He obviously did not like the plan in the first place, having been handed it by the Eisenhower admin.
..I really believe that he really should have canceled or delayed the operation, rather than to desert troops in on the beaches !

In any case, the plan developed by Richard Bissell and Alan Dulles did not work..how could it have ?

After the fiasco, Bissell speaking with JFK obtained an admission that the failure was JFK's fault. JFK told Bissell, " In parliamentary government I'd have to resign,
but in this government I can't, so you and Alan Dulles have to go !"....and they did..

The "Cuban missile crisis" didn't take place until October of 1962.

One can always "Monday morning quarterback"; but it seems that if the Bay of Pigs were taken seriously by the Kennedy admin and really exploited for all it
was worth, we may have never needed to face the missile situation...
 

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Ha, Fidel has one foot in the grave now, and his brother is not much younger. Once they are both gone, drastic changes will take place. Cuba is claiming the oil under disputed waters in the Gulf Of Mexico, between Cuba and Florida. If they get the oil, they will be ripe for investments. The only question is who will be investing?
 

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alsaqr said:
Did you ever wonder why the folks in DC rail about Cuba while at the same time shilling for communist China.
YES!!! I still remember watching 60 Minutes when this "favored nation" status for China was being pushed BY BOTH SIDES. The only ones who were against it in Congress were the "Union guys." Well, at the end of the program, Andy Rooney addressed this since he said he didn't understand it either. Next to him was about a 4 inch stack of computer printouts... Those computer printouts held the names of U.S. Corporations that were investing in China. :mad:

Guess there isn't enough bodies in Cuba for the cheap labor force companies want...

Jim
 

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Sourdough, I wonder who would trust them. "Nationalizing" just means the guy in charge of the country is using the country's military to steal the goodies so he can buy off his followers, and pad his Swiss bank account.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
ironglow said:
Alsaqr;

"I find it interesting that you shift the blame for "most favored nation" onto the house Republicans (who deserve some of it) and away from the one person who could have vetoed it and stopped it in it's tracks !...hmmm

..And you only mention Chu in passing..saying he must have bought off Republicans..when everything we seem to know about him shows him giving millions of non-traceable dollars to
the Clintons..

Did you notice that ?"



Yes, of course, i noticed it. Clinton did not veto favored nation status for China because he is pond scum just like all the Democrats and Republicans in congress who voted for it. Those internationalists are in the pockets of big business and Wall Street. They could care less what happens to this country and it's hard working citizens so long as they can line their pockets.

Bush pees all over himself every time there is another China product scare: He is a gutless wonder for not coming down hard on the Red Chinese. Ditto for congress.
 

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I have friends in Canada that vacation in Cuba every year. The Canadians can travel to Cuba freely. When they go they bring nothing but American dollars since the Cubans prefer the American cash. The Canadians love it there and say it is a tropical paradise. The American dollar goes a very long ways there in the purchasing of goods and services, an extreme bargain according to them. They invited us to join them and we politely declined.

Cheese
 
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