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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I've searched all over several manufacturers sites but can't find exactly what I'm looking for... this will be a stand rifle for deer and hogs to be used by youth and small adults (wife/daughter).


Hogue Overmolded stock (remmy makes some versions with this), Hogue doesn't seem to make a youth version but says they can easily be shortened by 1"

Short, heavy barrel 20" or so...

Detachable magazine... why the HECK aren't ALL youth bolt guns made with DM's? Much safer and easier to control ammunition that way.


7m-08 or 260 are the preferred chamberings.


If you could point me in the direction of something like this I would appreciate it. From what I can see, it looks like I'm going to have to go semi-custom and buy all the parts to assemble.


thanks,
NGH
 

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To get exactly what you want won't be available straight from the factory. Howa will get you close with their 2 in 1. It comes with two of the hogue overmolded stocks, one youth size and one regular. It has a 20in barrel(standard weight) but it don't have a detachable mag. You can get them with the Nikko Sterling scopes(which get good reviews). The rifles are chambered in the 7mm-08(no 260) and priced right. I know its not exactly what you want but its the closest I know of. http://www.legacysports.com/products/howa/howa_youth2n1.html Dave
 

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NGH,

I know what it is to have a certain and detailed "gun in mind" and not be able to find it, because you then become fixated upon it, instead of perhaps re-assessing your needs.

I don't believe anybody makes a factory rifle that meets your exact specs. By insisting on a short heavy barrel, plus a particular make and model of synthetic stock (Hogue,Overmold), you have placed yourself squarely in the area of having to build a custom rifle, for perhaps no real reason.

May I make a suggestion for your consideration, that may get you 95% there?

Consider the following:

1. Buy a used VG plus or near-excellentRemington 700 ADL, with a standard barrel. You can get these in almost any caliber.

2. Have your gunsmith shorten the barrel to 20 inches. (Actually, cutting it to 21 inches is a better solution, because this makes the rifle incredibly quick, but doesn't create a limited, butt-heavy rifle for when your wife and child get more experienced down the road.)

3. Buy and install the Hogue Overmolded stock.

4. Buy and install (very easy) a replacement magazine feed ramp, to temporarily convert it to a single shot rifle. (This is what bench rest shooters install in their rifles.)

This would create a very nice rifle, in a single shot mode, that can be easily converted back to a regular repeater when your wife and child get more experienced.

Having a single shot is absolutely the safest option of all, and will make your wife and child very careful shooters. They can carry two extra rounds in their coat pocket, in case they need a follow up shot. The concept of them taking multiple shots at a deer from a tree stand is not really realistic.

And, with a novice hunter, the most absolutely dangerous thing of all is for them to have shot a deer, instinctively racked a second round into the chamber, climbed down from the stand, found the deer dead, and then FORGOTTEN that they still have a live round in the chamber with the safety OFF. While everybody gathers around, admiring the deer, and yanking and pulling on it to get it field dressed and out of the woods, that rifle will go off!

I am not a great shot, but I have killed 27 deer in my life, and all but 2 were one shot kills. The other two required a second shot, but only after a short bit of tracking, and finding them down on the ground.

Another option is for you to buy a used Remington 788 bolt action(magazine fed), shorten the barrel, and see if you can find a Hogue stock for it. You won't be able to find one in 7mm-08 (extremely rare and highly expensive), but you can get one in .243 or .30-30, either of which make a fine deer rifle out to 175 yards.

The barrels on the 788 are fairly heavy and stiff.

Only problem is that the rifle itself is pretty heavy (about a pound heavier than a Remington 700?).

When I trained up my son, I let him shoot a Winchester lever action, .30-30, trapper, with an 18 inch barrel. I only let him load 1 round at a time. He killed his first deer with no problem at 145 yards using one shot, with the factory ammo .30-30 150 grain Remington Corelokt passing clean through, leaving a half inch exit hole. He was ten years old. Best of all, we didn't have to alter the trapper, except to add a leather comb piece, to raise his head up a little for the scope.

Hope these thoughts help.

Regards,

Mannyrock
 

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I don't know why you are fixated on the Hogue stock. They are nice stocks, but i don't see why would they be particularly desirable.
I don't know your budget, but i would buy a Tikka T3, preferably stainless, and preferably in 6.5x55.
Magazine fed, low maintenance, low recoil, high quality brass available from Lapua for reloading, great trigger from the start, great accuracy from the start, just put a scope on it and you are good to go (aftermarket scope rings seem much better than the ones supplied by Tikka).
About $650 plus scope.
 

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Nope no one makes it jist lak that. I understand we're all different in our tastes but for the life of me I don't understand what makes ya want it that way but if ya do so be it as it's your money.

I think you're gonna hafta start with a rifle with a detachable box magazine and just add the other features as ya can. Chopping the Hogue one inch if that's all it can be shortened isn't gonna get it to youth length tho I don't think. If you didn't need the box mag a youth model Seven from Remington is otherwise just about what ya want.
 

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Further thoughts.

1. The .260 is virtually a dead cartridge, barely breathing on life support. Why bother? Get a rifle in 6.5 Swede. This is readily available ammo, in many factory loads, and routinely used to shoot game up to and including moose. If you decide on the 6.5 Swede, then yea, get a Tikka. Great rifle, with detachable magazine and synthetic stock.

2. Geez, whats with the Hogue overmolded stock?. These are not regarded as great synthetic stocks. Are you afraid your wife or child will drop the rifle without this particular type of stock? They won't. :)

3. As Graybeard points out, the Remington Model 7 will get you 90% there. I didn't mention it, because it has a lightweight barrel. But, on the other hand, why are you insisting on a heavy weight barrel for a woman or a child anyway?

4. Consider: Are you building the rifle that your wife and child actually NEED, or a rifle that you WANT them to have? (Believe me, they will love a Remington Model 7, in a single shot mode, and will kill all the game they want with it.)

Best,

Mannryock
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Wow... hmm... you know my first reaction is to get "defensive" but then on second thought I realize that I asked a question and all you guys are just trying to help... so...

6.5x55 - yep is a great round BUT right now I don't reload and if my new job comes through I won't be able to for a couple of years. SO... there is "managed recoil" ammo available for the 7mm-08 AND I BELIEVE the .260. I know the 7mm has less recoil than my .308 and with the managed recoil ammo I should be able to get the 7mm down to probably 60% of the .308. Significant reductions for a small 10 yo boy or my 125 lb wife or 105 lb daughter. The 7mm-08 gives the same capability as the 6.5x55 to take anything from fox to moose but with the added benefit of light FACTORY loads.

Hogue stock - I have a 10/22 with an overmolded stock that my FAMILY loves. Everyone thinks it feels really grippy and secure. I like how quiet it is. They make one with aluminum pillars and one with full length aluminum block in it. Should be conducive to a fairly accurate rifle.

Short barrel - I won't quibble over a couple of inches. I like short rifles for stand hunting. Might as well get them something that is manueverable in a stand.

Heavy barrel - a bit more weight soaks up a bit more recoil.

DM - I don't want a rifle with a blind magazine where it has to be cycled to unload. Also, I've DROPPED way too many cartridges in the mud, snow, puddles, under the truck etc, when trying to unload my 700 with the hinged floor plate. I look at the magazine as a safety AND convenience issue.


I'm seriously considering getting the model 7 or another T3 but... I'd really like to find something factory made.

Remmy has an SPS Tactical that is pretty close but is in .308. I may buy that, there is .308 managed recoil ammo as well. Only problem is I think when Remmy puts the "tactical" label on there the price doubles.

Still hoping to find what I think would be the right rifle but getting closer to "semi-custom". If there are any more thoughts on this I would sure appreciate hearing them...


thanks,
NGH
 

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NGH,

You have really put forth some good reasons for your selections.

Sorry. We didn't mean to get you defensive. We just get excited and are sometime too direct with our advice and questions.

It is interesting that you are looking towards the 7mm-08 with managed recoil loads, to make sure that your wife and child don't have recoil problems.

May I make a suggestion though? It is astounding how little recoil the 6.5 Swede, with its 140 grain factory load, has. I can promise you that neither your wife nor child will have any problems with it at all.

If you have a friend that has a 6.5 Swede, perhaps you could borrow it and try it out at the range. Let your wife and child shoot it as well. I think you will find that the standard factory loaded 6.5 Swede has no more felt recoil than a managed-recoil load for the 7mm-08, and probably a managed-recoil load for the .260 Remington as well. I find it to be just a tad more than the .243 Winchester.

Those managed recoil loads are danged expensive and somewhat hard to find. The beauty of the Swede is that it is almost perfect "as is." And, I think
Tikka makes its rifle in this caliber as well.

Best,

Mannyrock
 

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I love those Hogue stocks as well and wish they had a better selection but they have what they have. The only problem I see with it is you said it could only be cut 1", if the shooter is very short that ain't gonna be enough.

The current crop of Model Seven's have heavier barrels than those first ones. They make a camo version with a heavy fluted barrel I really love. I'd like one in 7-08 which was made as was .260. Perhaps you shouldn't rule out the .243 which the Predator is still made in. I have two of the Predators and really love them.

Dunno if you could convert an M7 to detachable box mag or not, it might could be done. With some care you shouldn't drop a round but stuff happens. I just hate those detachable mags and can't see why others don't feel the same. :eek: The 7-08 is a particular favorite of mine but the .260 does have slightly less recoil if lighter bullets are used but not if 120s are used in the 7mm. Don't go overboard on the heavy barrel short stock or it will over power a small youth trying to hold up that heavy barrel with short stock. Seen that before.
 

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Sounds like you could find an old Rem Model 788 in 308 or 243. They didn't make the 7mm08 back then. I had one. They do have a detachable box magazine. I like a detachable magazine too, but they are hard to find. What about a Remington semi-automatic. Has a magazine, comes in a carbine version, don't know about youth size, and the semi-automatic kicks less.
 

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You could drop some serious $ modifying an existing rifle: cut & recrown barrel, DM mod, stock alteration. I do wish Rogue/Cricket/Chipmunk made a youth bolt gun in a low recoil deer caliber. Once my kids outgrew the Chipmunk .22, there wasn't a next size larger so we went to a Contender carbine because of the shorter LOP, handy size, and ability for a lefty and righty to share. Just a thought, but you might get close with a cheap Handi now, and save some $ for a nicer bolt for later.
 

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Don't know what range you would be hunting at, but a 44 mag or 30-30 lever doesn't kick to hard either. Both are good for hogs and deer. Of course, you would have to cycle the action to unload. Another option is a single shot Handi gun.
 

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Detachable magazines are nice but I like hinged floor plates far more. The reason is you can safely unload the rifle and not leave the magazine behind.
 

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mannyrock said:
1. The .260 is virtually a dead cartridge, barely breathing on life support. Why bother? Get a rifle in 6.5 Swede. This is readily available ammo, in many factory loads, and routinely used to shoot game up to and including moose. If you decide on the 6.5 Swede, then yea, get a Tikka. Great rifle, with detachable magazine and synthetic stock.
Since when is the .260 virtually dead? I have seen more .260 ammo than 6.5 Swede. The .260 is going strong and will continue to prosper. I'm not saying that gun magazines mean anything, but have you read any .260 articles in the last year? They are everywhere! The 6.5 caliber is slowly gaining popularity in the US along with most of its variants.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
I think it's funny how so many people have so many feelings about something as simple as the style of magazine a rifle uses...

GB hates DM's...
I LOVE them (as long as they fit flush or just slightly stick out).
I really don't like hinged floor plates. I can deal with them but it's a feature that I just don't like. Nothing like dumping all your rounds in the mud with a simple touch of a button...
I HATE blind magazines!!! Nuff said...


I look at the heavy rifle issue like this, if my kid doesn't get kicked, he/she is more likely to want to do it more. The places where we hunt in the US pretty much all have shooting houses. There is a rail to balance the rifle on so they don't have to hold up a 10 pound rifle.

Okay... I REALLY like the 6.5x55 even though I haven't ever shot one. I've always wanted one... I'd like to pick up a CZ in 6.5 with the full-length mannlicher styled stock. With the 6.5 vs say a .308... 55mm case vs a 51mm case, 140 grs vs 150 grains. Not having shot one... in my head I'm wondering if given equal weight rifles where the difference in recoil would come from.

I have Contender carbines and that was one of my first considerations... BUT... my wife hates the look of them. If she liked them I'd just dedicate my 6.8spc carbine to this purpose and be done but "if momma ain't happy...".

I may have to reconsider the model 7... a heavy barreled 7 would probably fit the bill.

I saw that Savage that was posted... is that muzzle brake one that can be "turned off"?

hmmm.... all these decisions... too many guns that just NEED to be bought.


I'm sort of broke right now. Ohhh, I can come up with enough for one rifle but Christmas is coming and there are computers to buy for college and bass guitars and amps that need to be bought and all that sort of stuff. Hoping that a new GS12 or so job opens up for me. With my military retirement added in, I should be able to fill the safes a little easier starting in the middle of next year.
 
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