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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I'm thinking of picking up a DPMS in either a .204 or .243. All my other AR type rifles have been .223 so this time around, I'm looking for something "different". Does anyone out there have any experience with either of these calibers in an "evil black gun"?
 

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Here is another option. With the .204, you can stick with the ar-15 platform, with the .243, you have to move up to the ar-10 platform, which adds weight.

I plan on doing a build in the next year or so with the .25 WSSM. This can be done with the ar-15 platform. You can also go with the .223 WSSM, or even the .243 WSSM. Just a suggestion. I am not particularily fond of the .223 WSSM, but it is a possibility.
 

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With the handle of moose hunter I was expecting to see a request for .338 Federal or .358 Win as an upper. If you go with a .243 you could later change out the upper to one of them later. But it would have to be a custom barrel.
DPMS does make both the .204 on the AR15 platform and the 243 in the AR10 platform as standard rifles. Add to that .223, and 6.8 SPC for the 15 frame and .260 Rem, .308, and 300WSM for the 10 platform.
www.dpmsinc.com
You may also want to look at an Armalite AR 15 or 10 as a base.
www.armalite.com
 

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Here are a couple of links that I found in my research. They have some pretty interesting calibers to choose from. One of them is even coming out with the .450 Marlin in the AR-10. Another good place to check is AR15.Com. This is basically a site dedicated to the black rifle. They cover ar15's and ar10's.

Check out these two websites. You wouldn't believe the number of calibers you can get!

www.olyarms.com

http://www.accuracysystemsinc.com/ar15_conversion
 

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DPMS= Don't Provide Much Service.

There will be many people sticking up for DPMS. I got into with the owner, a guy named Randy Luth, over a special order LE version the CAR-15....gun went back several times because it shot a foot high with the rear sight bottomed and the front sight rotated so far out it was wobbling. Come to find out they had the wrong carry handle made for it. Each time I paid return shipping. In addition, the gun would not group with anything our agency (and we are huge) used for ammo. SWAT snipers, USMC snipers and other type guys all shot this gun and it would group gigantic groups at 50 yards much less 100, even with a scope. Luth claimed he personally shot the gun with Black Hills ammo and sent the gun and a test target back.....we shot the gun AGAIN, several diff people, same ammo he claimed to use, and it grouped like a shotgun.

End result? He took the gun back but nailed me a large "restocking fee". Other guys in my office didn't listen and had the same experience. Our national firearms people refuse to allow anyone to carry DPMS products anymore.

Buyer beware.

RR
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
mcwoodduck said:
With the handle of moose hunter I was expecting to see a request for .338 Federal or .358 Win as an upper.
"moosehunter" is more of wishful thinking than anything else... ;D Here in Minnesota, a moose tag is a "once in a lifetime" deal and I have yet to be drawn. Maybe mooseTAGhunter would be a better fit... LOL!!!
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Rogue said:
DPMS= Don't Provide Much Service.

There will be many people sticking up for DPMS. I got into with the owner, a guy named Randy Luth, over a special order LE version the CAR-15....gun went back several times because it shot a foot high with the rear sight bottomed and the front sight rotated so far out it was wobbling. Come to find out they had the wrong carry handle made for it. Each time I paid return shipping. In addition, the gun would not group with anything our agency (and we are huge) used for ammo. SWAT snipers, USMC snipers and other type guys all shot this gun and it would group gigantic groups at 50 yards much less 100, even with a scope. Luth claimed he personally shot the gun with Black Hills ammo and sent the gun and a test target back.....we shot the gun AGAIN, several diff people, same ammo he claimed to use, and it grouped like a shotgun.

End result? He took the gun back but nailed me a large "restocking fee". Other guys in my office didn't listen and had the same experience. Our national firearms people refuse to allow anyone to carry DPMS products anymore.

Buyer beware.

RR
Hey RR....

I am honestly sorry to hear of the trouble you had with DPMS... They are kind of local (within a couple hours drive) of me and after hearing so many favorable reviews, I thought they were the ones to go with. In fact, I know someone who knows Randy personally and he tells me quite a different story about the guy, and about their guns. RR, don't get me wrong here. I'm not denying the fact you had a tough time with Randy or their products. If it's at all possible, I'd really like to hear more details about your dealings with DPMS. If you'd rather not post them in an open forum, feel free to shoot me a personal message or I can P.M. you my email address and we can take this of the board entirely...

This is what makes these forums so valuable. You hear the good AND the bad. So any words of wisdom, advice or recommendations would be very much appreciated.

With my limited income, I need to be very sure on which parts I buy as there may not be funds available to correct any lapses in judgment. This rifle needs to be built right the first time. The possibility of having to go through problems such as yours does not thrill me at all. And I'm sure my lil' commander-in-chief wouldn't be all that pleased either. If mama ain't happy.... Ain't nobody gonna be happy!! :eek:
 

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I have nothing but good things to say about Armalite. They helped me out and did a quick return at no charge and replaced parts I broke trying to get a factory round unstuck.
 

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DPMS makes quality products , and has good customer service as far as the dealings I've had with them. Be sure and check with your friend on this particular story, it seems like I've read it before, and you know there are always two sides to every story.
 

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moosehunter,
There is an alternative to the .223 in the AR15 platform, the 6.5 Grendel. It is based on the bench rest cartridge used for decades. Here is a good link for reading about it. You may already know about AR15.com, but there are a lot of AR craftsmen there
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=121&t=271627
The 6.8 SPC is also popular and one of the most readily available AR15 derivatives.
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=121&t=350804
These keep you in the AR15 platform where there are many options to build inexpensively. I bought a complete upper from Armalite for $358 shipped during their "Thanksgiving" Sale. Complete lowers from good sources may be had for $200. This stuff is all on AR15.com
There are some interesting calibers offered by Bushmaster and others, but I would suggest reading in the Build and AR15 Discussion forums in AR15.com before making your caliber choice. Barrett offers excellent 6.8 SPC rifles. Availability of magazines and other factors can be important. The 6.8 SPC and 6.5 Grendel cartridges have apparently been investigated and found to have the right pressure curves for the AR system as well as the supply of magazines being there.
While in AR15.com, check out the Ammo Oracle for some good reading.
As for our own St. Cloud DPMS, many competitive shooters use their rifles with satisfaction, and their barrels have a reputation for accuracy. At a match this past spring I saw at least 4 shooters with DPMS. As it is local, you can always visit the facility. If you read in AR15 you will see that all manufacturers have bad days.
I purchased an Arms Tech Ltd USR several months ago. It is very accurate (.5 MOA for real) and will be my prairie dog rifle this summer. The BRD did strike tho, and I am guilty of also having an A2 version form the above sources for under $625.
Regards
 

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I too had a problem with DPMS, saved up some hard earned cash and bought a LR308. Couldn't wait to see those .5" groups the gunwriters were getting. Loaded up some proven rounds after mounting a quality scope and rings. 5 inch groups were the norm with all loads. Called DPMS and talked to customer service. "What kinds of loads are you using?" Handloads. "Well thats a good way to void your warranty!" "Nobody else is having a problem." Then he proceeded to tell me he handloads as well and even gave me his powder preference. Asked was there anything else we could do and he said no. Tried a few factory "match" loads with equal results. Off to the gunshow for a $400.00 loss. I'll stick with my bushy's from now on. Not factory bashing, just speaking the truth.
 

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Moose, Im happy to shoot you off a PM. I apologize for not posting back quickly, I flit around this site not always remembering where I've been.

This was the most frustrating stupid experience I've had yet dealing with gun makers. Only Remington comes close to this one. Clearly any maker can have a lemon. However, I haven't seen anyone personally with their product that likes it. Again, that to me means something, but not everything. What was incomprehensible was this clown calling me a liar, and not following up. He even claimed to have an employee that wanted the gun so there should have been no "restocking fee". I suspect he supplies guns on a military contract to someone, and could care less about the little guy. The only thing that would have likely held water in my camp would have been to taken a video of all of us shooting the gun and photocopying the shooter's training and credentials...but at what point is enough enough and to what end? He can call me a liar, I'm calling him a liar, someone's right, someone is wrong. I can only say I wanted the gun to work, all he had to do was go find another one, have whomever in his business shoot it with loads I have to use, make sure it works and ship it. If he couldn't do that, then he should have said so.

Thanks,

RR
 

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On my AR15 my gunsmith built, the 1x7 chrome CMMG barrel would not group. Several different people shot it and with different ammo and bullet weights.....................4" groups were it. Sent it to CMMG,and in 2 or 3 weeks it was back with new barrel. Shoots 1/2" groups now, very pleased. I highly recommend CMMG
 
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