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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Okay,,,,lets leave the collapses and hole in pentacon to the criminalogists, engineers, and the miltary analysts trying to figure out how novice pilots escaped 16 intell and NORAD's auspices.....and consider who did it...who did 911? Here we have Dr. Alan Sabrowsky, former Vietnam marine veteran and former director of Studies at the US War College,,,claiming: "What we need to stand up and say is not only did they attack the http://www.veteranstoday.com/2010/03/20/gordon-duff-law-needed-to-protect-the-uss-liberty-survivors/]USS Liberty[/color][/url], they did 9/11. They did it. I have had long conversations over the past two weeks with contacts at the Army War College, at it's headquarters, Marine Corps and I made it absolutely clear in both cases that it is 100 percent certain that 9/11 was a Mossad operation. Period." -
Dr. Alan Sabrosky, March 14, 2010 - listen to http://theuglytruth.podbean.com/2010/03/14/the-ugly-truth-podcast-march-15-2010/]podcast[/color][/url]

This is the same claims earlier plainly explained by prime Minster of Italy claiming every intell agency in the world knows this fact...too sophisticated to and operation to be left to novice pilots...


fyi..TM7

http://www.veteranstoday.com/2010/03/19/22329/ Friday, March 19th, 2010 | Posted by Gordon Duff[/color] GORDON DUFF: SABROSKY INTERVIEW TIES ISRAEL TO 9/11 61[/color] DR ALAN SABROSKY, FORMER DIRECTOR OF STUDIES AT THE US ARMY WAR COLLEGE
“ISRAEL DID IT”
By Gordon Duff STAFF WRITER/Senior Editor
Meet Dr. Alan Sabrosky, a brave man, a USMC Vietnam vet, an American of Jewish ancestry and someone devoted to the security of the United States at any cost. Ask any Jew what it takes to stand up against the most powerful and ruthless group in the world, the Israeli lobby inside the United States.
VIEW COMPLETE VIDEO INTERVIEW AT THE END OF THE ARTICLE

YouTube - Veterans Today -[/color]

Sabrosky has been calling for a new 9/11 investigation for some time. What makes him unique is that we have a Jew who can hardly be called “self-hating” or “anti-Semitic” or against Israel. He is consistent in everything he says. His point is that you are an American or you are an Israeli but you can’t be both, especially now with Zionism turning Israeli foreign policy into a “runaway train.” 9/11, as Sabrosky sees it was the watershed in a relationship between America and Israel that has gone from bad to unsurviveable, especially for America. He contents that AIPAC exercises near total control over the electoral process in America through the ability to outspend any other group and destroy anyone who stands against them.
The unwillingness of the US to stand with the international community on humanitarian and war crime issues where Israel is found in continual violation is, to Sabrosky, a critial issue. In discussion the US and her lack of support for the Goldstone Report, Sabrosky says:
US criticism of the HRC resolution should be disregarded, as Washington only parrots Israel’s wishes here…
… it might have been better to have included Goldstone’s condemnation of Hamas offenses as well, but it is legitimate as it stands for five reasons: (1) Israel committed the great majority of the violations; (2) Israel had an overwhelming preponderance of military power; (3) Palestinians suffered almost all of the death and destruction; (4) Israel has a long, sordid history of ignoring UN commissions and resolutions, and of attacking UN facilities and killing UN staff, as when the clearly marked UNRWA facility in Gaza was bombed; and (5) the HRC focus is properly on the actions of the oppressor (Israel) and not on those of the oppressed (the Palestinians).
Another is that it did not accord Israel the right of self-defense. But Israel’s claim to self-defense in its savaging of Gaza is specious, because Israel — like all occupiers and oppressors — has no inherent right of self-defense against its victims. Who, for instance, would have accepted Nazi Germany’s assertion that its brutal reprisals against the Czechs for their assassination of a Nazi commander named Reinhard Heydrich was an exercise in self-defense? No one, and no one should accept Israel’s claim, either.
A third is that holding Israel accountable for its actions will somehow endanger the Middle East peace process. But there is no peace process, simply meaningless discussions to the dead end (for Palestinians and the rest of the region) of Israeli hegemony, and under Netanyahu or any electable government in Israel, there is not and cannot be one. There will be an enforced peace imposed from outside of the Middle East, over the objections and obstruction of Israel, or there will be none at all.
ZIONISM AND ISRAELI NATIONALISM
This is how Sabrosky describes the nature of Jewish nationalism as described within the term we call “Zionism”:
The differences between Jewish nationalism (Zionism) and that of other countries and cultures here I think are fourfold:
1. Zionism is a real witches’ brew of xenophobia, racism, ultra-nationalism and militarism that places it way outside of a “mere” nationalist context — for example, when I was in Ireland (both parts) I saw no indication whatsoever that the Provisional Irish Republican Army or anyone else pressing for a united Ireland had a shred of design on shoving Protestants into camps or out of the country, although there may well have been a handful who thought that way — and goes far beyond the misery for others professed by the Nazis;
2. Zionism undermines civic loyalty among its adherents in other countries in a way that other nationalist movements (and even ultra-nationalist movements like Nazism) did not — e.g. a large majority of American Jews, including those who are not openly dual citizens, espouse a form of political bigamy called “dual loyalty” (to Israel and the US) that is every bit as dishonest as marital bigamy, attempts to finesse the precedence they give to Israel over the US (lots of Rahm Emanuels out there who served in the Israeli army but NOT in the US armed forces), and has absolutely no parallel in the sense of national or cultural identity espoused by any other definable ethnic or racial group in America — even the Nazi Bund in the US disappeared once Germany and the US went to war, with almost all of its members volunteering for the US armed forces;
3. The “enemy” of normal nationalist movements is the occupying power and perhaps its allies, and once independence is achieved, normal relations with the occupying power are truly the norm, but for Zionism almost everyone out there is an actual or potential enemy, differing only in proximity and placement on its very long list of enemies (which is now America’s target list); and
4. Almost all nationalist movements (including the irredentist and secessionist variants) intend to create an independent state from a population in place or to reunite a separated people (like the Sudeten Germans in the 1930s) — it is very rare for it to include the wholesale displacement of another indigenous population, which is far more common of successful colonialist movements as in the US — and perhaps a reason why most Americans wouldn’t care too much about what the Israelis are doing to the Palestinians even if they DID know about it, is because that is no different than what Europeans in North America did to the Indians/Native Americans here in a longer and more low-tech fashion.
Sabrosky is one of the few Americans who sees the nuclear threat of Israel as it is, blackmailing the United States, not only in how it could be used to draw America into an unwanted war, but how it could actually be used at some point to attack the United States itself. Only recently, Israel put Western Europe on notice that it would be attacked if its actions threatened Israel, attacked by nuclear weaons from Israel without warning. Martin van Creveld’s threat combined with Sabrosky’s analysis of Israeli intentions and culpability for 9/11 brings to mind something Sabrosky had once written.
He has always seen Moshe Dyan as a hero. Dyan saw Israel’s military role as that of a “junk yard dog,” ready to bite without warning, attack anything and anyone. Sabrosky notes that, eventually such an animal is always put down or as he puts it, ”the preferred response of everyone else is to kill that mad dog before it can decide to go berserk and bite.”
9/11
Sabrosky makes a case, not just for a coverup of 9/11 but goes much further. He points out as do so many that the physics of the attack are unworkable. He, however, is one of the few to point to a conclusion many find obvious but few have the nerve to admit, that it would have been impossible to stage 9/11 without the full resources of both the CIA and Mossad and that 9/11 served the interests of both agencies quite well.
There was nothing they could have wished for more.
Sabrosky[/color] also makes a point involving media coverage of 9/11:
Finally, we need to take a hard look at why the mainstream media (MSM) have paid more attention to Sarah Palin’s wardrobe than they have to dissecting blatant falsehoods, discrepancies and inconsistencies in the US Government’s treatment of 9/11 and its aftermath.
ZIONISM AND TREASON
The inescapable point isnt the 60,000 Americans killed or wounded in a war started out of treason or the world it threatens to destroy. Americans have been looking away from these glaring realities the way they looked away from Vietnam. Sabrosky leaves Israel and her American Jewish supporters who he sees as traitors with a warning:
If these Americans and those like them ever fully understand just how much of their suffering — and the suffering we have inflicted on others — is properly laid on the doorsteps of Israel and its advocates in America, they will sweep aside those in politics, the press and the pulpits alike whose lies and disloyalty brought this about and concealed it from them. They may well leave Israel looking like Carthage after the Romans finished with it. It will be Israel’s own great fault.
Do we take Sabrosky seriously because he is a Marine or a Jew? Do we wonder why the things he says reach so few? Is American in a shooting war where our biggest enemy sits behind us, killing us off, robbing us blind and whispering gently in our ears how much they love us?
It would seem so.

YouTube - Veterans Today -[/color]
 

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Re: Dr. Alan Sabrowsy: "They did it...100% certain...."

Found this when I put Mr Sobrosky's name in my search engine. Interesting.

Clever the way they workd the swastika in to the Star of David.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Re: Dr. Alan Sabrowsy: "They did it...100% certain...."

Kinslayer...I think Nazism came out of Numbers, Dueteronmy and Leviticus..check it out.



BUGEYE said:
http://adamholland.blogspot.com/2010/05/alan-sabrosky-large-majority-of-us-jews.html

kinslayer, here's the real skinny on sabrosky. sabrosky never lets himself be photographed while wearing his tinfoil hat.
Looks like alot of comments on gatekeeper Adam Holland's spin/damage control article actually support Dr. Sabrowsky's supposition... :eek: :eek: :eek: ...Perhaps we should examine some of the evidence closer.

Meanwhile, here's what former PM of Italy, Francesco Cossiga says:

from americanfreepress.com..............Cui bono...??


ITALIAN SAYS 9-11 SOLVED
It’s common knowledge, he reveals, CIA, Mossad behind terror attacks

By the Staff of American Free Press
Former Italian President Francesco Cossiga, who revealed the existence of Operation Gladio, has told Italy’s oldest and most widely read newspaper that the 9-11 terrorist attacks were run by the CIA and Mossad, and that this was common knowledge among global intelligence agencies. In what translates awkwardly into English, Cossiga told the newspaper Corriere della Sera:

“All the [intelligence services] of America and Europe…know well that the disastrous attack has been planned and realized from the Mossad, with the aid of the Zionist world in order to put under accusation the Arabic countries and in order to induce the western powers to take part … in Iraq [and] Afghanistan.”

Cossiga was elected president of the Italian Senate in July 1983 before winning a landslide election to become president of the country in 1985, and he remained until 1992.

Cossiga’s tendency to be outspoken upset the Italian political establishment, and he was forced to resign after revealing the existence of, and his part in setting up, Operation Gladio. This was a rogue intelligence network under NATO auspices that carried out bombings across Europe in the 1960s, 1970s and ’80s. Gladio’s specialty was to carry out what they termed “false flag” operations—terror attacks that were blamed on their domestic and geopolitical opposition.

In March 2001, Gladio agent Vincenzo Vinciguerra stated, in sworn testimony, “You had to attack civilians, the people, women, children, innocent people, unknown people far removed from any political game. The reason was quite simple: to force … the public to turn to the state to ask for greater security.”

Cossiga first expressed his doubts about 9-11 in 2001, and is quoted by 9-11 researcherWebster Tarpley saying “The mastermind of the attack must have been a sophisticated mind, provided with ample means not only to recruit fanatic kamikazes, but also highly specialized personnel. I add one thing: it could not be accomplished without infiltrations in the radar and
flight security personnel.”

Coming from a widely respected former head of state, Cossiga’s assertion that the 9-11 attacks were an inside job and that this is common knowledge among global intelligence agencies is illuminating. It is one more eye-opening confirmation that has not been mentioned by America’s propaganda machine in print or on TV. Nevertheless, because of his experience and status in the world, Cossiga cannot be discounted as a crackpot.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~


TM7
 

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I will have to do some research and careful thought before I can comment on this subject. It will take some time. I am certainly not in the blame the Jews crowd. I am not living in a vacuum, I have done some research and thought already, just not enough to comment yet.
 

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Great link BUGEYE! I had pretty much figured out he was a kook but that surely spells it out for anybody who cares to check into him.

TM7,

Not sure an EXPresident who was forced out for committing atrocities himself is such a stellar witness for your cause. I also cannot find any info linking a "operation gladio" with the UN. Not that I have any great love for that organization.

CR
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
kinslayer1965 said:
Great link BUGEYE! I had pretty much figured out he was a kook but that surely spells it out for anybody who cares to check into him.

TM7,

Not sure an EXPresident who was forced out for committing atrocities himself is such a stellar witness for your cause. I also cannot find any info linking a "operation gladio" with the UN. Not that I have any great love for that organization.

CR

Kinslayer...heh, knock the messenger tactic again,,,but just read the comments in the Adam Holland spin piece... ;) ..looks like a lot of readers didn't buy his spin!!. Looking more and more like the real 'kooks' are the OCTs salesmen. Can't knock Dr. Sabrowsky's creds and experience even with 500 words...PhD and at University of Mich now, I believe...The guy is not a light weight.. Incidently, I use to ride motorcycles with a few NYPD and NYFD...they were very tired of the Guilani 'Gag' order....they had alot to say to say the least..check out patriotquestion911.com . Cossiga was President from 1985 to 1992 winning in a landslide election, before that was prez of the Senate...pretty good run I would say. Perhaps we should look at what several Japanese parlimentarians are saying, too. Operation Gladio existed...so did the Lavon Affair,King David Hotel Operation, Operation Susannah, USS Liberty, Northwoods PACT,,,,these all existed....
BTW Adam Holland forgot to mention but...I believe Dr. Sabrowsky was "holder of the General of the Army Douglas MacArthur Chair of Research"....you don't get that being a shoddy researcher and skechty guy.


Farmboy....only a handfull of agencies could pull this false flag off,,,to tie 16 intell agencies and NORAD's shoelaces together....If you prefer start with the Cop that speaks up thread, Urban Moving Systems + Suter, GW Bridge Van + explosives and cash, Isreali 'Art' students camped in WTC, ICTS airport secuity, Securocom of the WTC, 2 El Al flights to Isreal, FOX News Clark Cameron's four part exposure story (if you can still find it!) Lucky Larry's connections and couts, the personel involved, PTECH, and so on and on and on.......Sure! this info will not be found at mainstream sites or from the DNC or GOP news outlets...the FOXy 4 part story is quite informative if you can find it on the web.

..TM7
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TM7,

I get the impression that anything outside complete agreement with him is going to qualify as "knocking the messenger". While I didn't find Mr. Sobrosky to be particularly earthshaking or authoritative I did give the post it's due and tried to research some of the allegations made, but when in very short time you find the swastika star of David thing and then can't find anything about some of the other statements it makes you go hmmmmm.

Maybe Lost Farm Boy is right with his "Illuminati" angle and the "Illuminati" have Mr. Sobrosky on the payroll as a "red herring" and using him to lead people astray? I am sure I left a comma out in there somewhere, Sorry.

CR
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
kinslayer1965 said:
TM7,

I get the impression that anything outside complete agreement with him is going to qualify as "knocking the messenger". While I didn't find Mr. Sobrosky to be particularly earthshaking or authoritative I did give the post it's due and tried to research some of the allegations made, but when in very short time you find the swastika star of David thing and then can't find anything about some of the other statements it makes you go hmmmmm.

Maybe Lost Farm Boy is right with his "Illuminati" andgle and the "Illuminati" have Mr. Sobrosky on the payroll as a "red herring" and using him to lead people astray? I am sure I left a comma out in there somewhere, Sorry.

CR
Lack of historical perspective and Biblical history is your problem; not mind....actually the Star of David is a 'closed' swastika...that nazism evolved from Duet, Numbers, Leviticus, Talmud is a study best left for another day....suffice to say many scholars consider practice of zionism in Palestine=nazism.. Sabrowsky elaborates on this issue.

As for 911 Cui bono..? Certainly, not moslems...unless they were client states, nor Americans, actually. Possible 'illuninati' use 'zionism' as tool for world opression; also possible the opposite is true...Sabrowsky says all the Alex Jones 'illumnati' this and that is mainly diversion...go to the 'oldest' fraternity around on the planet for a start, who had the 'hand' in the false flag....look at the specifics and personages involved. Eg..What was mossad doing living next door to Atta..? Who controlled Bush Jr. admin...

...TM7
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TM7,

Not that I would ever try to be argumentative ;) ;) , but just because I don't choose to adhere to your particular view of history does not mean I lack a historical perspective. As far as Biblical history goes I have never claimed to be a theologian and not sure what you meant by that part of the statement. ???
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
kinslayer1965 said:
TM7,

Not that I would ever try to be argumentative ;) ;) , but just because I don't choose to adhere to your particular view of history does not mean I lack a historical perspective. As far as Biblical history goes I have never claimed to be a theologian and not sure what you meant by that part of the statement. ???
.
Doesn't matter right now...otre diaz on that. What does matter, far bigger planned event than 4 planes and 3 buildings disappearing, (some videos scrubbed)......TM7:

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[/color]Get Alex Jones' TERRORSTORM: A History of Government Sponsored Terrorism (Final Ed.) DVD
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[/color]
The Mystery Of The 9/11 Car Bombs
Evidence points to multiple roaming backup teams with vans full of explosives
[/color]
[/color]
[/color]
[/color]
Steve Watson
Infowars.net

Monday, April 23, 2007 [/color]
12diggs[/color]
A much underreported aspect of the 9/11 attacks is one that concerns transmissions, sightings, reports and statements alluding to multiple mysterious suspects in different vans packed with explosives that were stopped and detained in New York while the towers were burning and in the aftermath of the attacks. Some evidence even suggests that some of these vehicles actually exploded, and at least one was reported by mainstream media sourcing the FBI as having been parked at the base of one of the towers when it exploded and aided the collapse of the tower. At first it sounds outlandish, but were teams of "terrorists" with huge amounts of explosives roaming around on the ground in New York on September 11th ready to jump into action and attack whichever structures or buildings they were ordered to target? The first, and most mysterious, piece of evidence to highlight comes from an actual transmission from audio from Channel 30 NYC, one of the emergency communications channels, on the morning of September 11 which makes reference to the discovery of a van full of explosives and two suspects located http://maps.google.com/maps?q=king%2Bstreet%2Bnew%2Byork,%2Bny&spn=0.041652,0.064742&hl=en]between 6th and 7th on King Street[/url], some blocks away from the World Trade Center. The bizarre thing about the transmission is that the responder makes reference to a mural painted on the side of the van depicting a "remote controlled plane" diving into New York City. A full transcript follows the audio: Begin Transcript: [/t][/t][/t][/t][/t][/t] <blockquote></blockquote>officer: [inaudible]
officer: 5 the message about the plane
officer: Sergeant [inaudible] seven five (Miller?)
officer: 5 [inaudible] about the, 10-5 the message about the plane
officer: 9414 hold up
officer: 5 the message about the remote-control plane
officer: [inaudible] on the air
officer: [inaudible]
officer: [inaudible]
officer: [inaudible] Trinity and Liberty… all city wide task force units are to respond to Liberty Trinity Place
officer: 10-4 the message is the plane [inaudible]
officer: [inaudible] task forces
c/o: [inaudible] and [inaudible] will be the mobilization point at this time [inaudible]
officer: 10-4 c/o central who is [inaudible]
officer: didn’t find any mention about the plane (alt: didn’t find any admission about the plane)
officer: central, we need the bomb squad and EAQ over at King and……background noise….click
officer: [inaudible]
officer: [inaudible] units
officer: [inaudible] on the air
officer: 9415 you on?
officer: 85[inaudible] this is uhh operator
officer: [inaudible]
officer: negat[inaudible]
officer: [inaudible] giving up these [inaudible] (planes?)
officer: [inaudible] I got a message on that uh plane,
it’s a big truck with a mural painted of a of a airplane diving into New York City
and exploding [inaudible] know what’s in the truck, the truck is in between 6th and 7th on King Street
officer: [inaudible]
officer: [inaudible]
officer: [inaudible]
officer: [inaudible] 10-5 10-5
officer: with a mural painted uh airplane diving into New York blowing up. Two men got outta the truck
ran away from it, we got those two [inaudible] under.
officer: kay great.
officer: [inaudible]
officer: [inaudible] are you holding those to guys [inaudible] (kay?)
multiple voices/commotion: [inaudible] (censored word) beat the crap out of him.
officer: [gasps]
multiple voices/commotion: [inaudible] (censored word) crap out of him [inaudible]
officer: all right listen you need any [inaudible] on those two guys over there? you all right over there kay?
officer: we got both suspects under kay, we have the suspects who drive…drove in the van and that exploded
we have both of them under kay let’s get some help over here
officer: now I’m sending you [inaudible] I just want to make sure you and your guys all right over there kay, that’s all.
officer: what’s the location [inaudible]
officer: put em up, put em up
officer: you know we have both the [inaudible] driven that exploded. Is that correct?
officer: what location?
officer: location [inaudible]
officer: [inaudible]
officer: [inaudible] location [inaudible]
officer: King Street between 6th and 7th
officer: King Street and 6th and 7th avenue, King Street and 6th and 7th avenue
officer: [inaudible] on the scene King 6 and 7, which unit are you kay?
officer: [inaudible]
officer: [inaudible]
officer: [inaudible] explosion
officer: which unit is on the scene at king street?
officer: truck to Manhattan
officer: [inaudible] 10 truck
officer: [inaudible] 10 truck is heading a team toward 14 Trinity Place
officer: all right you take care of that for me and get back to me
multiple voices: [inaudible]
officer: all right just check out that location let me know what you got
officer: [inaudible]4
officer: [inaudible] on the air
officer: on the air
officer: [inaudible]
officer: that fine with you?
officer: CIT Units on the air, CIT
officer: [inaudible] always available [inaudible] we’re talkin

<blockquote></blockquote> The indication is that the suspects ran away when the van was stopped and were then apprehended following some sort of struggle. It is then stated that the van has actually exploded.
Naturally the strangeness of this audio clip has lead to questions concerning its authenticity, yet this was cleared up soon after the clip emerged sometime last year, when it was discovered that reference to the mural van was also made in the February 2006 Norman Y. Mineta International Institute for Surface Transportation Policy Studies (MTI) report entitled: “Saving City Lifelines: Lessons Learned in the 9-11 Terrorist Attacks”. The report states: “There were continuing moments of alarm. A panel truck with a painting of a plane flying into the World Trade Center was stopped near the temporary command post. It proved to be rented to a group of ethnic Middle Eastern people who did not speak English. Fearing that it might be a truck bomb, the NYPD immediately evacuated the area, called out the bomb squad, and detained the occupants until a thorough search was made. The vehicle was found to be an innocent delivery truck.” The Culhavoc blog site, which has covered this mystery in depth here, notes: The MTI quote makes absolutely no mention of the truck exploding. This report states that the truck was rented. Doesn’t the MTI find it interesting that middle eastern men rented a truck and painted it with a mural depicting an attack currently taking place blocks away? Why would someone paint a mural of WTC being attacked by planes on a rented van?
In addition if this was an "innocent delivery truck" why did the suspects attempt to run away?
We have two middle eastern men in a van with a mural on the side of New York being attacked by a plane diving into it on the same day as two planes are flown into the twin towers. Is this alone not suspicious enough to warrant a full explanation in the MTI report?
Something about the mural also must have caused the officer heard on the transmission to believe that it depicted a remote controlled airplane packed with explosives. The remote controlled plane comments are interesting when put into context side by side with Operation Northwoods, the now infamous 1962 plan by the Joint Chiefs to carry out terror attacks on American soil to be used as a pretext to invade Cuba.
What happened to these two men? Why was the apparent explosion of the vehicle never reported? And why was first responder audio stating the vehicle had exploded subsequently ignored by all the official investigations into 9/11?
More Roaming Explosive Vans in NY on 9/11
Another transcript of 9/11 police radio transmissions, originally obtained by memoryhole.org in 2005 through a Port Authority Freedom of Information Request, reveals a second separate mention of a van with “terrorists” and explosives:
CPD - Ch . 018 - Radio (Ch . W) LT Police
from page 148 of 1593 (in pdf pages)
http://www.thememoryhole.org/911/pa-transcripts/pa-transcript027.pdf <blockquote></blockquote>MALE C: Attention all 880(?) police units . Stand by for the (Inaudible) the Holland Tunnel . (01 :18:57)
MALE D : (Inaudible) copy .
MALE C : (Inaudible) from the Holland Tunnel exit, a tan Ford alpha van . New York tags . delta (Inaudible), November 8970 . Information has it this van was seen with possible terrorists in it, with explosives . That’s from the Holland Tunnel desk, (Inaudible) 32nd . It’s heading eastbound towards Le Havre(?) at this time . but they haven’t caught it yet, and it may be coming towards this way . (01 :19:25)

<blockquote></blockquote> The Holland Tunnel exit is a few blocks from King between 6th and 7th.
Could this be the same van that exploded on King St. as was reported on NYPD radio or is it a completely different van?
Certainly if the van had a mural painted on its side one would assume any sightings would include a description of this also. This is not the case here however, which suggests this may be an altogether different white van with 'terrorists" and explosives.
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In a separate transcript first broadcast by NBC news, another mention is made of a white van with explosives and "terrorists" heading for the Holland Tunnel.
<blockquote></blockquote>Dispatcher: Jersey City police.
Caller: Yes, we have a white van, 2 or 3 guys in there, they look like Palestinians and going around a building.
Caller: There's a minivan heading toward the Holland tunnel, I see the guy by Newark Airport mixing some junk and he has those sheikh uniform.
Dispatcher: He has what?
Caller: He's dressed like an Arab.

<blockquote></blockquote> Based on that phone call, police then issued a "Be-on-the-Lookout" alert for a white mini-van heading for the city's bridges and tunnels from New Jersey.
Is this yet another white van or is it again the same one? It is somewhat strange that the caller describes the man or men as "dressed like an arab". Certainly there was no mention of out of the ordinary dress when the two suspects from the King St. incident were apprehended.
Furthermore, why would any potential terrorist attract attention to themselves by dressing out of the ordinary? Why would any potential terrorist paint a mural of an attack they know is going to happen that day on their vehicle? Were these sightings hoaxes or deliberate distractions or were there actually people carrying out these actions, and if so on who's orders were they acting and why were they being so blatant?
These reports are very strange but they are in the record on 9/11.
In addition to these Holland Tunnel reports, The Jerusalem Post and others also reported that a white van with a bomb was stopped as it approached the George Washington Bridge:
<blockquote></blockquote> American security services overnight stopped a car bomb on the George Washington Bridge. The van, packed with explosives, was stopped on an approach ramp to the bridge. Authorities suspect the terrorists intended to blow up the main crossing between New Jersey and New York, Army Radio reported.
<blockquote></blockquote> It was reported that two or three men were arrested and the van contained tonnes of explosives.
CBS's Dan Rather also reported on this, a video of which appears below:

Could these two incidents at the Holland Tunnel and the George Washington Bridge have involved the same white van and the same group of "terrorists"? The George Washington Bridge is several miles north of the Holland Tunnel. It certainly becomes clear that the suspects detained at the GW Bridge were not the same suspects detained in King St. with the mural on their van.
The Five Dancing Israelis Arrested On 9-11
Another often documented instance of suspicious individuals seen in a white van on 9/11 is that of the so called "Five Dancing Israelis". It was reported by the New York Times any many other outlets that Police received several calls from angry New Jersey residents on and after 9/11 claiming that a group of five "middle-eastern" men with a white van were videotaping the disaster with shouts of joy and mockery.
The following details are taken from whatreallyhappened.com's excellent datapage on this aspect of the story.
Some witnesses stated they saw the men set up video cameras aimed at the Twin Towers prior to the attack and were seen congratulating one another afterwards.
Witnesses saw them jumping for joy in Liberty State Park after the initial impact. Later on, other witnesses saw them celebrating on a roof in Weehawken, and still more witnesses later saw them celebrating with high fives in a Jersey City parking lot.
In each case the white van was mentioned and a group of three to five described. Could these reports have all pertained to the same group of middle easterners or was there more than one group?
It was reported by ABC, the New York Post and the New Jersey Bergen Record that police stopped a group of five men in a white van on a ramp near Route 3, which leads directly to the Lincoln Tunnel at around 4.30pm on 9/11. The police and FBI field agents became very suspicious when they found maps of the city with certain places highlighted, box cutters (the same items that the hijackers supposedly used), $4700 cash stuffed in a sock, and foreign passports. Police also told the Bergen Record that bomb sniffing dogs were brought to the van and that they reacted as if they had smelled explosives. The Jewish weekly The Forward reported that the FBI finally concluded that at least two of the detained Israelis were agents working for the Mossad, the Israeli intelligence agency, and that Urban Moving Systems, the ostensible employer of the five Israelis, was a front operation. This was confirmed by two former CIA officers, and they noted that movers' vans are a common intelligence cover. The Israelis were held in custody for 71 days before being quietly released. It was also determined that the Israeli owner of Urban Moving Systems, Dominick Suter, dropped his business a few days after 9/11 and fled the country for Israel. He was in such a hurry to flee America that some of Urban Moving System's customers were left with their furniture stranded in storage facilities. Suter was later placed on the same FBI suspect list as Mohammed Atta and the 19 hijackers. Several of the detainees discussed their experience in America on an Israeli talk show after their return home. Said one of the men, denying that they were laughing or happy on the morning of Sept. 11, "The fact of the matter is we are coming from a country that experiences terror daily. Our purpose was to document the event." How did they know there would be an event to document on 9/11? This is clear evidence of prior knowledge.
Below is a video of a report that includes footage of the afore mentioned Israeli chat show:
The fact that these men were exposed as Mossad agents raises the question, who were the other groups of middle eastern men spotted in white vans on 9/11 working for? More Exploding Vans? The following clip shows Jack Kelley a foreign war correspondent stating to USA today that the FBI believed that a truck full of explosives was parked beneath the buildings which exploded and weakened the structures aiding their complete collapse: The next clip shows MSNBC news reporter Rick Sanchez stating that NYPD found suspicious devices and think a van with explosives was parked inside the WTC. The next clip, which also contains the above two, shows many witnesses stating that they heard explosions inside and at the base of the buildings. It also contains MSNBC's Pat Dawson stating that the chief of safety for the New York City Fire Department had told him that they believed a secondary device had exploded somewhere inside one of the buildings: So not only do we have reports of explosive vans from all over New York on 9/11, news reports also strongly suggest that the authorities believed that vans packed with explosives were used in the actual attack on the World Trade Center. Another widely circulated report picked up by multiple mainstream outlets on 9/11 was the announcement by senior law officials within the State Department in Washington that a car bomb had exploded outside the their building. The news anchors in the following British Channel 5 clip also make mention of a car bomb at the State Department and the bombing of a shopping mall in Washington DC. These were not rumors generated as a result of "confusion" as is often the defense - the anchor cites a "senior U.S. law enforcement official" as the source. Why were these events reported and then never covered again?
It is commonly accepted that the breadth of the 9/11 attack was planned to be larger in scope because Flight 93 did not reach its target. Were the State Department and Washington Mall "bombings" intended to go ahead but for whatever reason failed or were called off? Was the media fed a script too early as in the case of Building 7, which was also reported to have collapsed by both the BBC and CNN up to 30 minutes before it actually fell? By the evening of September 11, following a "perimeter walk around our building," the State Department publicly stated that no such bombing had taken place.
Why were senior State Department officials telling the media that there had been a bombing without even conducting a basic appraisal of the building's perimeter? Can this all be put down to "confusion" or were some elements of the 9/11 script changed according to how events were unfolding on the day?
Conclusion There are reports from 9/11 of white vans with explosives and middle eastern suspects in at least eight different places in New York on that day:
[/color]

  • [li]King Street[/li]
    [li]nr. Holland Tunnel[/li]
    [li]nr. George Washington Bridge[/li]
    [li]nr. Lincoln Tunnel[/li]
    [li]Liberty State Park[/li]
    [li]Weehawken[/li]
    [li]Jersey City[/li]
    [li]World Trade Center [/li]
These locations are represented by the blue placemarks on the map (click for enlargement).
There were at least three different parties involved:
1. The Israeli group detained near the Lincoln Tunnel
2. The mural van pair detained on King Street
3. Whoever it was that was detained near the GW Bridge
None of these groups were dressed in Arab garb so, if the documented call to police stating this was authentic, there may have been another group.
There are many more witness statements and reports of exploding vehicles in and around ground zero on 9/11, far too many to go into detail about. Were all these reports and statements, including the NYPD transmissions inaccurate or false alarms? Or do they represent evidence of 9/11 being a much larger scale operation than we have been led to believe? Were all the mysterious suspects "backup" in case the planes never reached their targets? Were some involved in bringing the towers down? We can only speculate on who these people were, what their roles were and who they were working for, but once again it is clear that the whole truth as to what happened on the day that changed the world is far from being told. Note: More transcripts from 9/11 can be found here. Independent researchers may wish to look through them. There may be more references to suspicious vehicles contained within this myriad of documentation.

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In a separate transcript first broadcast by NBC news, another mention is made of a white van with explosives and "terrorists" heading for the Holland Tunnel.
<blockquote></blockquote>Dispatcher: Jersey City police.
Caller: Yes, we have a
[/td]​
[/td]​
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Above posted article contains video links, (many scrubbed),,,go to: http://www.infowars.net/articles/april2007/230407vans.htm
to view many videos of real time events...

TM7....Additonally:

Ryan Dawson
[/color]

The owner of Urban Moving Systems Dominik Otto Suter fled to Israel and was listed by the FBI as 911 terrorist suspect. Urban Moving Systems also got a one time government grant in 2001 of 500,000 dollars. The Israelis arrested near the Lincoln tunnel had each been working with Urban Moving Systems and living in the US just 6 months before the attack. The 9-11 call about Palestinians in a van combined with the Israelis saying we are not your problem the Palestinians are your problem, fits with other events of the day including the faked tape of Palestinains cheering and dancing about the attack which went on US airways, and later the anthrax attack notes and the lies from Israeli security Forces claiming they witnessed Iraqis giving anthrax to Atta in Prague at a meeting that turned out never even took place. This Prague meeting myth first came from PNAC's Schmit who sourced Fred Barns and Zionist James Woolesy who claimed to have photographic evidence of this meeting. They were lying. Later after the Israelis added to the myth the lie about a transfer of anthrax, Libby's girl friend Judith Miller (who would go to jail for 85 days) assisted the false narrative by writing about fictional Iraqi mobile weapons labs capable of producing anthrax attacks. more here http://www.rys2sense.com/anti-neocons/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=23624[/color]


http://www.infowars.net/articles/april2007/230407vans.htm

http://www.myspace.com/video/vid/8157860

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tRfhUezbKLw&feature=player_embedded

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kL6N66vPCAs&feature=player_embedded
 

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OK I guess maybe I am slow, stubborn, thick, argumentative or any number of adjectives you would wish to use, but when I type in "dominik otto suter" and "fbi most wanted terrorist list" into a search engine and the only and I mean only links that come up are to hundreds of conspiracy sights I get sceptical. Not one link to the FBI webbsite, where one can go whenever one wants to view that list, was found. BTW he is not on that list now so what happened?

I am sure someone will have an explanation. I am sure it will have something to do with my lack of "historical perspective" or "biblical knowledge".
 

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All the links go to people like sabrosky who lies about his credentials and is obviously anti-semite.
I have not found a single credible conspiracy site. they sometimes get very childish in their rants.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
kinslayer1965 said:
OK I guess maybe I am slow, stubborn, thick, argumentative or any number of adjectives you would wish to use, but when I type in "dominik otto suter" and "fbi most wanted terrorist list" into a search engine and the only and I mean only links that come up are to hundreds of conspiracy sights I get sceptical. Not one link to the FBI webbsite, where one can go whenever one wants to view that list, was found. BTW he is not on that list now so what happened?

I am sure someone will have an explanation. I am sure it will have something to do with my lack of "historical perspective" or "biblical knowledge".
.

Somewhere on the www is the article from the NYCity jewish newspaper, The Forward, implicating Urrban Moving Systems in the demolitions....The five dancing isrealis, the van painted with an airplane crashing into the WTC, the van on GW bridge, with cash and explosives, another near the Holland Tunnel, etc were employees or property of Urban Moving Systems...who's owner was Dominick Otto Suter...the 'boss'. Suter quickly left town for isreal within two days of the bombings....actually said to have left his lunch on his desk. The five dancing isrealis filming the demolitons were subsequently ordered released and sent back based on immigration violations.. ;) FBI wanted Suter for questioning...does the USA have a extradtion agreement with super ally isreal...?? Check that out.... All of this indicating a far more comprehensive attack plan than 3 building demolitons...beyond moslem patsy capabilities.

Dual citizen Chertoff, author of the Patriot Act shredding the Constitution, set about arresting 1600 moslem tourist, students, businessmen, etc. and holding indefinitely while releasing isreali 'spys' and expunging all records of isrealis arrested and detained, including the market shorts records. That Suter does not appear on any of your 'searches' is not surprising and actually indicates a grander deception and an 'after attack' control program. Of course, neither was Osama Bin Laden on any FBI wanted list for the WTC demolitons, nor did I originally see arab names on the airliner passenger lists.

Moreover, attempting to control or slide the discussion by characterizing any site challenging the governmnet's Official Conspiracy Theory as 'conspiracy sites' is disingenous and indicates a shakey basis for your arguments--people are figuring this out...Truth sites, as you refer to as 'conspiracy sites', may not be 100% accurate but they are certainly more accurate than the wild goose chase of the Official Conspiracy Theory...which is the least believable conspiracy theory of all...

~~~~~~~~~


Bug....Sabrowsky has never lied about is credentials....he is it what he says....PhD, former marine, former Director of Studies at the Army War College, author, college professor, etc....and Truth researcher and teller. That commenters on you Holland site tell Holland where to get off is very telling indeed....


We need to look closer at all the personages involved with these demolition attacks and lead up....attacks impossible to be pulled off by a guy in a cave on dialysis with a cell phone and attacks which seem to have been planned on a much wider scale--bridges, tunnels, etc......as Cossiga said a sophisticated operation to pull off.

..TM7
 

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OK I think I got this straight.....it is quite acceptable for a "truther" to use the word "conspiracy" as in "the goverments official conspiracy theory" but when someone else uses the word it is "disingenuos" and "indicates a shakey basis for your argument". Got it!

Just out of curiosity isn't the core of the "truthers" belief that there is indeed a "conspiracy" involving goverment coverup of what actually happened?

All I did was try to research some of the information that was posted and reported my findings. How is that "trying to control" or "sliding" the discussion? It is not my fault that when trying to verify the info posted that those web sites come up. Am I supposed to ignore that fact. I would think if "truth" is your goal the answer has to be NO.

CR
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
kinslayer1965 said:
OK I think I got this straight.....it is quite acceptable for a "truther" to use the word "conspiracy" as in "the goverments official conspiracy theory" but when someone else uses the word it is "disingenuos" and "indicates a shakey basis for your argument". Got it!
Well no, actually you don't have it straight. You clearly use the word 'conspiracy'[/color] in a scoffing or marginalizing manner, attempting to detract credbiltiy in one fell swoop from info presented....I remind you that your belief is just a conspiracy theory, too...the Official 911 storyline is the Official Conspiracy Theory,,,beit the least believable, with many holes, and never investigated properly. The 911 Commisson has said so. Unfortunately, 911 research indicating other than the OCTheory as gospel fact is not found on mainstream media, GOP Weekly, or in the Wall St Journal. Thus we must rely on bands of patriots sorting thru facts; and propaganda issued by The Official Conspirators... :eek:
[/color]Just out of curiosity isn't the core of the "truthers" belief that there is indeed a "conspiracy" involving goverment coverup of what actually happened?
Yes and in unison with another country discussed in this thread...Like a Plant #6 working with a plant # 2 make sprocket assemblies,,,,and mass media is complicit with the coverup, in fact mass media coverup is absolutely required for success of a false flag attack.[/color]
All I did was try to research some of the information that was posted and reported my findings. How is that "trying to control" or "sliding" the discussion? It is not my fault that when trying to verify the info posted that those web sites come up. Am I supposed to ignore that fact. I would think if "truth" is your goal the answer has to be NO.
Yes, those websites come up, and So?....I think you don't like any website that detracts from your tidy Official Conspiracy Theory, and so characterize these sites as tinfoilers, conspiracy sites, or some other marginalizing term...when really what is evolving is a picture of a larger conspiracy far greater than 19 Saudis flying around for 90 minutes, tieing NORAD and 16 intell agencies shoelaces together, as controlled by a millionaire on dialysis using cell phones in an Afghani cave...Cossiga has the experience, Sabrowsky too, to know what they're talking about....[/color]

Now about this Otto Suter guy:
The five men worked at the company Urban Moving Systems, owned and operated by Dominick Suter. After the men were arrested the FBI searched their offices and questioned Suter, however Suter fled to Israel before he could be questioned further. Eventually, Suter's name appeared on the May 2002 FBI Suspect List, along with the Sept. 11 hijackers and other suspected extremists.[sup][58][/sup] 58. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urban_Moving_Systems#cite_ref-57]^[/url] Times Herald, August 29, 2005. [/color]

We need to look at the higher ups in this 'conspiracy' a little more....placed in key positions..TM7[/color]
CR
 

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kinslayer1965 said:
Maybe Lost Farm Boy is right with his "Illuminati" angle and the "Illuminati" have Mr. Sobrosky on the payroll as a "red herring" and using him to lead people astray?

CR

Is this one of your jokes or are you trying to be serious? He could be a useful idiot. Some useful idiots are on the payroll, but most work for free.
 

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Still doesn't explain why my cousin and thousands of others witnessed the airliner that hit the pentagon.
 

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billy_56081 said:
Still doesn't explain why my cousin and thousands of others witnessed the airliner that hit the pentagon.
it happened just like your cousin said. but the simple minded are easily led astray by people who want nothing more than an adoring public.
 
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