What do you think of using an Encore pistol in 45/70 with black powder loads for deer, elk, and bear? I want the power and versatility of the 45/70 but cant handle the recoil. Does anyone see a down side to trying this?
I've wondered about the same thought lately. Shoot the 45-70 in contender but I've noticed not as often. This is the one and ONLY barrel where I like a muzzle break. Used to shoot the old 16" w/o break and it wasn't too bad on the hand, but barrel jump was out of sight. In a tree stand or some odd position(like trying to shoot a deer behind you)you really had to be careful. Went to the 14" Hunter barrel and it's like shootin heavy 45Colt or 44Mag. Still, I'm wondering how it would be in say. a 15" Encore. LOVE to get back to shootin' more. Its kinda like running a large Bulldozer...that power feeling. But have to consider the arthritus in my hands as well. GOOD SHOOTIN', Walt
The main reason for the black powder loads other than reduced recoil would be 1. I shoot muzzleloaders more than anything and have powder on hand. 2. I am working on getting a Sharps reproduction for black powder 45/70 and would like to use the same loads for a hunting pistol. Has anyone of the readers here ever tried it?
I think increased maintenance would be my big concern. You might consider using Accurate's 5744 with lead bullets. They have numerous reduced loads using this powder. The following loads are from Accurate's2001 Loader's Guide:They list Level 1 45-70 loads that are for the Trapdoor Springfields...300 PB Lead bullet at 1597 fps with 31.grains of XMP-5744...all the way to a 530 grainer at 1172 fps with 26 grains of 5744. Level 2 (Ruger,Marlin, Sharps,Winchester) has the 300 PB at 1877 fps with 38 grains....to the 500 grain RNSP at 1488fps with 31. grains..Seems some or reduced and others (especially level 2)are quite warm. I have used 5744 with very good results in my .300 Whisper,but no other cartridges have been tried. Hope this helps. You can get a free guide from Accurate or techical assistance at 1-800-416-3006. :grin:
I have done a lot of shooting with black powder loads in the 45-70 contender using 535gr. postall bullet, the case will not hold 70gr of powder like the name implies, it will only hold about 65gr. at the most. That said, its a very accurate load and if you paper patch its even better. And less trouble with cleaning! You do have to drop down to see what you hit, but thats ok too.
Do you have any problems with residue building up in the frame assembly? Have you found any down side to using BP in your Contender? What is the recoil like? Do you think these loads would be effective on the game I listed above? I know, WAY TOO MANY QUESTIONS !!! Sorry, but I want to make sure this is safe and what is considered acceptable way of taking game.
I have no problems with residue building up in the frame assembly at all, the barrel gets residue and leading but if you paper patch its a lot better. The only down side to using BP in a Contender is that you have to duck down to see what you hit, or have a spotter. The recoil is heavy but not unbearable more a push than a kick! Yes these loads would be effective on the game listed above. AND NEVER TOO MANY QUESTIONS!!! Dont be sorry, you need to know and I have done this, its best to make sure that it is safe and I think it is an acceptable way of taking game. Try it on something like wet news paper, but use a lot and make it thick, as it will go deep. If you want to try this but you dont want to buy 50 or 100 535gr. Postells let me know and we will work something out on about 5 or 10 for you to try. I didnt make these I got them off eBay but I got a lot when I did.
I once tried a duplex load that was listed in an old Lyman manual in my old 16 inch barrel. It shot great , and was one of those things I meant to go back and do again but never got around to. I won't quote loads from memory but in general it was small amount of one of the old DuPont pistol powders under case full of black topped by 405 lead. I think I've still got that manual...I'll look tonight. GOOD SHOOTIN', Walt
I have the Lyman manual if you can't find yours.
its a 322gr. lead hp
with 5gr. sr-4759 and 45gr. of FFg and a 1/2 gr. Dacron wad
this is the starting load it goes up to 7gr and 63gr. of FFg
rember safety first
In my feb. 3 2003 copy of the shotgun news there's a story about using pyrodex pellets by mike venturino.
He says you can use two of the .44cal 30 grain pistol pellets in the .45-70 with federal 215 large rifle magnum primers, he states this gives almost identical ballistics to the original military blackpowder loads from the 1870s.
hope this might help.
Yes i'v tryied i and have had awsome sucsesss, and i did not have any dacron wads, in lymans black powder book book, it has loadings for the most popular barel lenghts and bullet types and handguns and lever guns and .45-70 loads ive used the loading for 65garins of goex and elephant and tryied kik and swiss and pyrodex and prodex pellets, with a 405grain lead bullet .
the guys on the cowboy forum helped me a week or so ago on the pellet s, seems that two pyrodex pellets of 30 grains and a405grain bullet ontop is all you needand fairily accurate.
as far as cleaning i shoot three rounds and run a .45 cal bronze brush down the barrel which helps in powder build up and then run a few patchs threw the breech end , the only problem i got is the muzzle break area on my kahidian barrel now thas a different beast all together. but have enjoyed shooting the loads.
the book also as a .44special load thati triedin mymy 629 i used a .44 mag case and loaded the case to .44special chaarge and seated a 230 gr wadcutter on top i again used goex ,elephant, kik,swiss and pyrodex pistol
didn't have any pellets at the time, but found the pyrodex pistol powder the most accurate, and the folks at the range freaked out when i shot the first time i triggerd a round and a huge cloud of blue black smoke rolled out of the barrel annd clogged the are with six fast rounds Haha. if interested send me a pm and i'll get you the loads that iv'e used.
Thanks, but for BP loads, I wouls want a longer bbl to make sure I burn as much powder as possible. So far, other than leading from the bullets, I havent seen anyone who has done this have any problems. Looks like Im gonna be making a trip to the range. By the way, I just looked at the Hogdon site and I will try their Triple 7 powder since its not as corrosive and cleans up with tap water, seems that will save some mess as well.
the nice thing about the 777 is it is a little hotter than the pyrdex (from what I read) and will burn in a 14" barrel, but for that matter 65gr. of black power will burn in a 14" easy look at all the guys with 18" to 22" that are useing 150gr.
I received some 535gr's today...WOW!!! thats alot of lead. Will load some up this week and give it a try. Looks a bit intimidating, but you never know unless you try. Will let you know the outcome.
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