Graybeard Outdoors banner
1 - 16 of 16 Posts

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
94 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Has anyone here glass bedded the forearm on a Encore rifle? I have the 25.06 in the heavy barrel and thinking about bedding mine solid from one end to the other. I know some are pillar bedding but don't really know which would be best and had rather bed solid if it will help tighten up my groups. I know after doing this the forearm would only be good on that paticular barrel. Has anyone done this?? Any comments or ideas would be appreciated.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
56 Posts
Forearm Bedding

I recently purchased a new encore rifle from EABCO. I bought a frame which came with a composite stock and forend. I also purchased a laminated stock, a 223 and a 308 factory 24" barrels. I asked if they could free float the laminate forend. Much to my surprise, EABCO did not free float the forend, they glass bedded the laminated forend just like you were saying, from one end to the other. It fit so tighly that it would snap onto the barrel. As both barrels had the same factory taper (read none) it seemed to fit on both barrels just the same. I tried both barrels with three different types of premium factory ammo in each barrel and did not shoot anything that resembled a group. I also tried shooting groups with the composite forend that was not glass bedded. That seemed to shrink the pattern somewhat, but still was not anything close to satisfactory performance. I have since sent the frame and barrels back to TC for evaluation and am awaiting a reply.

I know that this is not conclusive on the glass bedding issue, as the gun would not perform with the non bedded forearm either. However, I did note that the patterns (note patterns, not groups) were smaller with the non bedded forearm. I did notice a lot of verticle stringing with the fully bedded forearm. If the gun would have shot well with the non bedded forearm, I would have returned it to EABCO. However, since it shot so poorly with both barrels and foreneds, the problem may have more to do with the barrel/frame fit. I would be interested in hearing the results of others.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
13 Posts
This is the first time I have heard of the forearm being ridgedly glass bedded to the barrel. I have heard of fitting felt to the forearm or barrel to snug the gap. I have 2 Encores and have had really GOOD luck with the flat washer trick to float the forearm. Both will shoot .5" a 22.250 and a 257 wby. mag. Good luck and keep us up on the latest developements.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
13 Posts
Well sir this is painfully simple, I used a 3/8" ss flat washer and placed it between the barrel and forearm. This worked on my synthetic and my laminated from Boyd's. I had trouble, no literal **** finding longer screws for the laminate but the factory screws worked on the synthetic (I finally purchased a #8 screw blank kit and a 40 die from Brownells). Go to your nearest old fashioned hardware store and get yourself a variety of thicknesses as close to the screw size that you can find. There are several. Install the thickness that works best front and back... they could be different. My laminate required 2 on the rear and 1 on the front to keep things straight. This has worked wonders for me. I did have a problem with vertical stringing sometime back but found that my scopes front objective lens had loosen for some unknown reason. I think that vertical stringing is classic of a scope or mount problem. Anyone feel free to correct me. Hope this helps. Oh yea, if you were by chance to need a couple of screws holler back at me.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
71 Posts
Well I have done the glassbedding trick to my 22-250 in the 26" barrel. I must say that it was a long process and it still had the same problem of overtightening the screws. Every time I changed barrels I would impact in a little different spot. I then made some pillars and did the pillar bedding to my forend. This lets you tighten the screw until it hits all metal to metal having less effect on the screws being tightened different from one time to the next. I must say that I have done all my forends this way and am getting some groups as low as .285 out of my guns. It is a lot easier and it seems to work better when changing to different barrels..
Thompson has a pillar on there muzzle loader barrels that stays right on the barrel. I have not figured out why they did not incorperate this on all there barrel. Well good luck and happy shootin....Leon
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
381 Posts
I had thought of adding just a washer as a cheap way to get some clearance between the barrel and the forearm, just have not gotten around to trying it. Thanks for the pointers, guys. I think I'll try washers first, and adding pillars to the forearm next, as I try to tighten groups.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
282 Posts
I bedded a Boyd's laminate forend for my contender carbine. Sanded out the barrel channel till I had a good amount of clearance and smeared the barrel with the bonding release agent and bedded it. I switch the forend out between 2 different custom shop barrels without a hitch. I really can't say that this made any noticable changes :? both shot well before and still shoot the same.

I think it was more work than it was worth, and in the future would either go with a hanger bar forend or try the washer method.

Hope the barrel works out for you, can't beat a good 25-06.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
163 Posts
Contender And Encore Forends

I am compelled to weigh in on this issue since it is such a pervasive problem. Since I have used/tried almost every possible method of using T/C forends on Contenders and Encores I think I can offer some advice that was painfully gained and often at considerable personal grief, pain, stress and expense. My experience and results come from the school of hard knocks and lost dollars - I now have a graduate degree in T/C forends and am qualified to pass on this knowledge to those who would like to save some time, effort and last but not least, some money.

The prize for the best overall idea in forend bedding (drum roll please) is. . .to isolate any type of forend from the barrel. Get that forend material far enough away from the barrel so it won't touch, ever! The cheapest, easiest and sometimes the best method of doing this is with stainless steel washers of the appropriate size on each screw. Materials other than stainless steel can crush, deform and work loose sometimes - stainless steel is worth a few extra cents where washers and forend screws are concerned - you can get many of these in the form of stainless steel washers and cap screws at Ace Hardware stores - I know other hardware stores have them, but many of you live near an Ace Hardware - make it easy on yourself, their washer and screws don't cost much and they're close. Use one or two washers on each screw, enough to allow a dollar bill (no, don’t fold it, use only one thickness) to be freely run all the way from the muzzle end of the forend back toward the action until it runs into the first forend screw), make absolutely sure you tighten your screws firmly (an inch-pound torque wrench is a good idea for consistency) so there is no positional shifting, particularly if you are using an installed sling swivel stud to mount a bipod. After installing the washers, make sure you have enough threads on your forend screws to maintain a firm hold on the dovetail inserts - too few threads and you're singing the "I Lost My Forend 'Cause The Recoil Ripped It Out Of My Dovetails" blues. Use longer replacement screws if needed. 'Nuff said.

Second place goes to the hangar bar system - from anyone who knows how to make one and can cut/form a proper channel in the forend. This system does a very good job by itself with no other effort on your part. You can buy the hangar bars from Bullberry, Virgin Valley or make your own. If you have sufficient shop skills (it really isn't that hard), you can cut your own channels with machinery or hand form them with careful attention to detail. My personal preference is for custom house (Bullberry, Virgin Valley, etc.) laminated forends with precut hangar bar channels, they fit great, and are very, very strong and easy to finish/refinish any way you like. Whether you choose wood or laminate, they are a great choice for a large segment of the T/C shooting population. Buy the hangar bar and unfinished forends, get the Minwax stain of your choice (I know a lot of you already have the stain), pick up a spray can of Tru-Oil and some 0000 steel wool and you are an artist who has saved a lot of money for more important things - like more T/C forends, barrels, frames, scopes, grips, cases, bullets, primers. . .ad infinitum.

My third place choice goes to pillar-bedding, Virgin Valley does an excellent and fairly inexpensive job, other custom houses do it too. Again, my choice, due primarily to my requirements for a strong forend are the laminates, I use bipods on some fairly heavy recoiling guns, laminates stand up to the punishment for me. Buy the unfinished, pillar-bedded forend and finish as in the previous paragraph. Again, you become an artist that has a great forend which adds to your guns accuracy instead of detracting from it, and you save your hard-earned dollars for more cool T/C stuff – see above for suggestions if you need any for your hard-earned money. Generally, pillar-bedding from a custom house in my opinion seems to work better on Encore forends, for Contenders I prefer the fourth place method below because of the incredibly strong forend that results.

Fourth place goes to a hybrid bedding method that I prefer for most Contenders, it can also be used for the newer Virgin Valley Encore hangar bar). Get an unfinished laminate hangar bar forend (with a hangar bar of course – a side note, I get ‘em long enough to go all the way out to within .25-.50” from the muzzle, that way my sling swivel stud gives me a better stabilizing radius for my bipod), glass in the hangar bar itself (please contact me for the exact procedure if you're interested - it was taught to me by a person who is a REAL artist in fabrication) with Marine-Tex, finish as in the above paragraphs and you're off to the woods, range, countryside, outback, mountains or wherever it is you do your T/C thing.

Just a bit of extra drivel here: I use only stainless T/C’s because I’m an old, lazy, shiftless crank and anything I can do to cut down the effort I expend fighting rust is time and/or money well-spent in my book (OK, you busted me, anything I can do to cut down any effort expended on ANYTHING is time and/or money well-spent). Consequently, I use only stainless steel washers, cap screws and sling swivel studs (OK, they sort of match the rest of the gun too). Since I’m so lazy, I generally only use Ebony Minwax to finish my forends since it makes it easier to match the various types of black grips I have – spray Tru-Oil works great over the Minwax finish.

I don’t know if this is useless diatribe, or whether it may actually be useful to some of you, but as I said before, I have had most of the problems you all have and have been able to solve them quite satisfactorily in my own bumbling way – if this saves you some time and money – COOL! My work here is done and we have more happy T/C shooters afield representing our common interests instead of cowering in the corner wondering how they will be able to fix a forend problem on one of these T/C contraptions. Always remember to ask your questions. You may be assured that you are not the only person who ever had that problem, and you can be assured that out of all the experienced and knowledgeable Contender and Encore shooters and ‘smiths, one of them will be nice enough to help you because they remember when they didn’t know doodley-squat about T/C’s either.

I want to issue a personal challenge to you highly-experienced T/C guys out there who DO know doodley-squat: Try to help at least ten new T/C shooters this year with their problems and questions, then ask them to do the same when they have new and improved skills that they can pass on to others in the future. It’s worth your time and all of us will benefit from an increased T/C presence in the shooting world. Your knowledge is power – exercise it!

Please feel free to contact me with any comments and/or questions. If you disagree with me, please have a reasonable alternative suggestion for me before telling me I’m full of it. I’m old, feeble and deserve a certain modicum of respect at my ripe old age – cut me a break. 

Good and safe shooting to all of you!

Javelina
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
163 Posts
Clarification

Just a quick clarification to "Fourth Place" above. I get my forends long enough to come within .25-50" of the end of the muzzle, not the hangar bars themselves. The hangar bars I use are standard length.

Good and safe shooting to all of you.

Javelina
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
100 Posts
Javelina:

"make sure you have enough threads on your forend screws to maintain a firm hold on the dovetail inserts"

My Encore 223 rem 26" hvy barrel don't any dovetail inserts. The barrel is just drilled and taped. Now how do I do the washer trick??

thanks for the info
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
163 Posts
Minnesota Dick,

You can use longer forend screws that will allow you to place one or more washers against the barrel itself to stand it off from the forend. Note that the Encore's forend screws are of a different size and thread than those on Contenders. If you really want to be sophisticated (or anal, you decide which), use a small round file to dish-out the washers slightly on the side that will touch the barrel, much like a mini-channel (I always like stainless steel washers) to form-fit it to the barrel. Even a more sophisticated/anal approach would be to glass-bed a stainless steel washer into the forend - using a Forstner wood bit of the appropriate size to drill a hole slightly less thick than the washer for better support if you don't have a laminate or composite forend. If my poor old pea-brain can recall correctly, I believe the Encore barrel is threaded 8-40 with one of the forend screws being 7/16" and the other being 3/4" but check me on that to be sure - heck, at my age, check me on everything to be sure! Obtain longer screws and if necessary, cut them off with a Dremel Moto-Tool so that the increased screw length does not exceed the length of the original screw plus the thickness of the washer (or washers) you will be using. If you dish out the washers which touch the barrel with a file, make sure to shorten the screws a little more than the thickness of the washer, since overall thickness will be reduced somewhat and that distance must be correctly reflected in the screw length to keep the screws from bottoming out (and you REALLY don't want that to happen).

I hope this is of help. Let us know how it comes out!

Good and safe shooting to you.

Javelina
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
163 Posts
Forend Accuracy Tricks

Minnesota Dick,

To clarify my previous post:

If you choose to glass-bed a washer into your forend in a hole (drilled by a Forstner bit) just slightly less deep than the thickness of the washers you're using, you will still use at least one (if not more) additional washer between the glassed-in washer and the barrel to stand the forend off from the barrel. Hopefully this is slightly more clear than Mississippi mud and is even remotely helpful. If I could draw pictures in the dirt for you this would all be easier. . .

Good and safe shooting to you.

Javelina
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
100 Posts
Javelina

Drilling the forearm is what I thought I would do. The reason I asked about the dove tail on the Encore was mine was drilled and tapped, and I thought maybe I had a strange one being drilled and tapped. I would like to change the screws to cap screws, but don't know where to get some that size. I understand that the screws a are special thread that only t/c uses, is that right?? I have tought about having it re theaded to a standard size, but don't know yet for sure it I want to go that way yet.

Right now I am using a small rubber o-ring that just fits snug over the screw and holds the screw attached to the forearm when the forearm si removed. Reaily don't lake that set up very well as it is a pain once in while.

thank for the info

dick
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
163 Posts
Encore Forend Screws

Minnesota Dick,

As per my post above, I believe the Encore screws are 8-40 and although not that common, you should be able to get them from a screw and/or hardware supplier. You can check your existing forend screws with a thread gauge if there's any doubt. If you can get some in 8-40 that are 1" long you can cut them to any length you need with a Dremel Moto-Tool or something similar. Check your local hardware store or Ace Hardware. I get all my Contender stainless cap screws from Ace just because it's close and easy and they always have what I need. I'll try to remember to check whether they have the 8-40 size or not and let you know.

Good and safe shooting to you.

Javelina
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
90 Posts
You will have a heck of a time finding 8X40's. You can buy blank 8's and a die from Brownells(not hardned) or drill out the 8X40 and re-tap with 10X32. I got some hard 8X40's from TC and then adjusted the depth of the hole in the forend.
 
1 - 16 of 16 Posts
Top