Graybeard Outdoors banner

1 - 20 of 38 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,075 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I heard on the radio news this morning that police somewhere in the US had taken a wandering Alzheimer's patient home to discover that her husband, a retired doctor, had about 500 guns, 100,000 rounds of ammo, and 800 pounds of powder in the house. They confiscated this, citing that it created a hazardous condition. Hopefully the doctor has a good lawyer on this. It doesn't sound like a case of somebody stocking up for armageddon, but rather an enthusiast who had the wherewithal to afford a hobby he loved.

Have you heard any particulars on this story? I couldn't find a reference in the news sites.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,602 Posts
No doubt an enthusiast, but there is a name for people such as these.........Had an old lady busted by the animal police that had 90 dogs in her house...........she couldn't pass one by without taking it home.........

I don't know where you draw the line between enthusiast and obsessive........but 100,000 rounds and 800lbs of powder is getting to the point where it might actually be hazardous.

I think the local Fire Marshal sets limits of how much gun powder can be kept in a private residence and this varies city to city, state to state.

What would happen if there were a fire, and the local fireman came to put it out without knowledge of all that powder.........These are the guys those ordinances are ment to protect.......sounds more like an armory to me.........
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,075 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
If that's the case, I can think of a few people who would be reclassified as obsessive. I better keep my mouth shut about who they are.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
753 Posts
We had a guy last year that had a thing for small rockets building them and such. Were out in the country so was only afew reports as to what he was doing nobody really check to see how much stuff he had well he blew his house up with him inside and I stopped by later that afternoon only thing stand was a foundation and chimmey. Stucco house with a tile roof. They found alittle bit of debris and body parts.
Before I moved to Co I lived in San Jose, Ca one day in the paper was a big thing about some guys making bombs with gunpowder blew up a garge they were making them in killing one of the two guys then the anti gun guys got thing pushed within two days that you had to sign for gun powder if buying withing city limits. Days (months)later in small print on the last page of the paper was what really happened. these two guy shared a house both shoot skeet had alot of bulk powder in the garge for reloading shotgun shell. One guy was cooking breakfast got some bacon grease on fire tried to run throught the garge to put it out trippped over a bulk powder blew himself up. Talk about a bad day.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,075 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
My understanding is that smokeless powder is not an explosion hazard unless it's stored in large cannisters, 50 pounds and up. Is that not true? I don't see how tripping over an 8 pound keg of Red Dot is going to result in blowing up a house.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,602 Posts
This is surely a gray area. I'm not saying it's obsessive, but I can see how this would raise some eye brows........

9/11 changed alot of things about storage and possession of explosives....i.e gunpowder.........

I think local fire codes allow 8 pounds in a home without any special containers........ Anything over calls for special containers. I think a wall locker would qualify. I was suprised to find that the firemarhal determines what can be kept in what quantity.......

I don't think this law is enforced much due to right to privacy laws, and 4th ammendment issues. Maybe Zachory will clarify this a little...........

I do think there are ligitimate saftey concerns, especially in apartments and townhomes..........where do you draw the line? Don't ask me!!!!!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,301 Posts
Do you think there'd be a problem with any of that plastic explosives I've got......................oops, I guess I'd best not be talk'n 'bout that! :lol:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,075 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
The reason this interested me is that it seemed like a collector was being punished because of his hobby. The convicted felon part is an obvious problem with that. I'd like to read the whole story. Do you know how I can find it on the web?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
823 Posts
NFPA495-85, 10-3.7 is the standard for home storage, set by the National Fire Protection Association, and followed by most local authorities. Up to 20 pounds of smokeless powder may be stored in original containers without a special box around them. 20 to 50 pounds requires that the powder be stored in a powder box (or an old, unplugged fridge is pretty good for this). 50 pounds seems to be the limit for home storage. These are national guidelines, your local laws may vary. The NFPA code appears in pretty much every loading manual and free powder booklet, if someone wants to read the actual text.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,337 Posts
A collector being punnished for his hobby??? Come on now! If all that powder would go at once, there would be one tremendous explosion. The battleship Arizona is proof what canvas bags of powder can do when they're ignighted, just think what tin cans will do. This isn't collecting, it borders on reckless public endangerment. The guy was obviously obsessive with a dangerous substance. It's one thing to collect hoards of harmless objects but when you start to mass flamables or explosives, it is dangerous and should be stopped. His neighbors might beg to differ on it being a harmless hobby.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,618 Posts
Arsenal Found in Elderly Couple's Home
Thursday June 02, 2005 5:23pm


RIDGEFIELD, N.J. (AP) - A day after police escorted a disoriented elderly woman to her home, they returned with a search warrant and found a massive cache of weapons and gunpowder. Nearly 500 guns, including AK-47s and high-powered rifles, 500 pounds of gunpowder and 100,000 rounds of ammunition were taken Wednesday from the home of Elizabeth and Sherwin Raymond, both 82.

Sherwin Raymond, a former physician and known gun enthusiast, has twice spent time in prison: in the early 1970s for performing illegal abortions and later that decade for selling silencer-equipped submachine guns. Convicted felons are not permitted to own guns.

"People knew he was a (gun) collector, but no one suspected the magnitude of what was found," police Chief John Bogovich told The Record of Bergen County for Thursday's newspapers. "This will be a monumental task to inventory."

Police said they sought the warrant after bringing Elizabeth Raymond back to her home on Memorial Day and seeing the windows and doors open.

Police suspect many of weapons might have been bought at gun shows. Federal authorities are expected to investigate where they were purchased and whether they had ever been used in crimes.

Sherwin Raymond was charged with creating a hazardous condition and his bail was set at $25,000. Police guarded him Wednesday at a Hackensack hospital while he received dialysis treatment. His wife, who was not charged, was taken to a nearby hospital so she did not have to be alone.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,004 Posts
Well...interesting reading...but I feel that some salt is required.

First of all, it is New Jersey. Believe me, NJ is second only to Kalifornia in their ignornace. I lived there for 20 years, until I couldn't take it anymore.

Secondly, the paper is incorrect in that it states that convicted felons cannot possess firearms. A convicted felon my apply to have his firearm rights restored, and about 95% of those who apply are granted the return of those rights.

500 pounds of powder? Duh... let's see something here. How would that breakdown? Say he was a trap shooter and bought 8 pound kegs, and he had 4 or 5 of them lying around, for different gauges. That is 40 pounds.

Let's also say he was an avid reloader (at one time) and bought 5 pounders of all the different rifle and pistol powders. My last powder rate chart indicates there are 220 different commercial powders currently available. So if he had only 80 of those powders, that woudl bring the total to "almost" 500 pounds. Now ... how many of those containers were full? We all have 10 or 15 almost empty cans lying around (because we might use it some day", but the cans still say 1 pound, 4 pound or 5 pound on the outside, when in reality there is only an ounce or two inside.

500 firearms?

Nah...you have to realize that NJ cops, lawyers and politicians can't count past 10 without unzipping their pants!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,602 Posts
You do make some valid points riccardelli. I suspect there is some liberal left journalism at work here. both sides, looks like the sharks....er....I..mean Lawyers are going to be busy with this one.....

Looks pretty bad for the old fellow if you ask me........especially if all the facts about being a convicted felon are true....

How much powder to do you keep on hand? I've got a few pounds, less than 10........I'm kind of curious about this!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,868 Posts
Hey flash, a news flash for you! Those canvas bags on the Arizona were filled with BLACK powder(an explosive) not smokeless. I have been to state and local "hearings" on gun possession laws. They, the anti gunners ,would tell all kinds of horror stories and swear they were factual occurences. When confronted with the truth,they would say "IT must have been another person I was thinking of!" Gramma used to say"believe nothing you hear ,and only half what you see"
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,231 Posts
I hope by the time I'm 82 I will have aquired 500 guns! I don't need that much powder though - I try to use 5 or 6 different powders for all my reloading so just maybe 25 lbs or so would be fine. I have a lot of loaded rounds ready so I can shoot when I want, don't know how many, never counted. I also enjoy loading so I'm sure I have more loaded than I need.

He had AK47s. So what, so do many other people - nothing illegal about that. He had hi-powered rifles. So what, what do they consider a hi-power rifle - anything that shoots a bottlenecked cartridge?

To me it sounds like an old guy with lots of time and money that has been working at his hobby for longer than most of us have been alive. If he hasn't been a problem in his community leave him alone. ****, you might be in his will and could have received 50-100 guns had he not been busted.
 
1 - 20 of 38 Posts
Top