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GUN or CELL PHONE ?

:D I agree with ya on that one,,,I always have a cell tx on me also,even when my portable was on...I think that a lot of people,because they have a cell tx think that it is thier safety net.....they aint any good until after the altercation is over,prior to that.. u should be doing something else....99 percent of police work is REACTIVE ,not,PROACTIVE.....meaining...we gets thereafter the fact.....king
 

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The police are not obligated to provide protection.

Cell phone - 186,000 mph
Trooper - 70-80 mph
Time to house if the trooper is in town - 20 miutes

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Handgun - here now!
300 grain XTP - 1,600 fps

Guess who is going to get the business done first?
 

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Guns vs Cell Phones

Hay SS: How ya B? Tain't hoid frum yis inna long time. Whut calibur is dat cell fone? Ifin it ain't as big as yor 40 and 5 er hold mor boolets, hit tain't no guud inna gunfight. Period. tain't ne'er hoid ov nobody gittin' shot up wif a cell fone afore. Dis be Mikey, ov course.
 

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GUN or CELL PHONE ?

Why does it have to be "either or"? I carry both. I also carry pepper spray, and often a walking stick, depending on the state of my knee. Each has its uses, particularly to a civilian who's no longer all that agile.

I don't have to go after the bad guys, nor is running a particularly viable option for me due to age and injuries. I'd be just as happy to fort up somewhere and call for the calvary. While I'm waiting, I have a .45 and several loaded magazines with which to enterain my unwelcome guests if need be.
 

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gun or cell phone

Try pepper spray on some punk on crack! You dont have to kill someone. But lord dont let them take your protection away from you. As for the cell phone these thugs, rapists, robbers, ect dont care who in the heck you call...........but if they have a 45 slug in their leg the cops can follow the blood trail. The only victim is a unarmed victim :twisted:
 

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CCW Mindset....

If you are a CCW permit holder, you should already have the mindset that is:
"If your actions cause me to draw and point my gun at you, I'm already prepared to pull the trigger.... if you continue your aggression or advance towards me, you've made the decision for me. I will continue to pull the trigger until your advance or aggression is stopped."

If you don't have this mindset, then you may find yourself the victim of your own indecision, possibly by use of your own weapon. Without the proper mindset to begin with, a person who is indecisive may find it in their best interest to go forth unarmed. or trust their protection to others, who most likely will respond only "after the fact".

I am now 60 years old and even though I may present an ominous appearance being 6'2" @ 300 lbs, my arthritis and joint stiffness and general lack of physical conditioning make it difficult for me to even stand up without difficulty, let alone fight. Running or retreating is not an option for me either. I wouldn't even make it a consideration to wrestle or fight with a young thug, regardless of his age. I would stand little chance of surviving without serious injury, let alone winning such a physical encounter. I believe the "legal term" is called DISPARITY OF FORCE that would be used in my defense for escalating my defense to the level of using a firearm in my defensive response. I am 40% VA disabled and walking impaired.

Oh yes, the cell-phone.... I'll use it to call 911 and then my lawyer - after I've stopped the aggression or attack on my person or family.

:roll: :twisted: :eek: :wink:

"Really Officer, I am willing to cooperate fully with you and answer your questions.... just as soon as my lawyer arrives and agrees to it. That's my story and I'm sticking to it."
 

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gun or cell phone

Slug-gunner YOU ARE MY HERO!!!! You hit the nail on the head!! If there was more people with the mindset then crime in this country would be reduced to someone spitting on the sidewalk or swearing ect. :-D :-D :eek: :eek:
 

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Good reply Slug-gunner

Welcome to Graybeards! Good response. Since I am legally disabled also it sounds good.

In Vietnam we were told to stop someone: "Bang, Bang, Bang, Dugli (stop)"

Or was that: Dungli, bang, bang, bang. We kept getting confused over there!
 

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GUN or CELL PHONE ?

Cell phones are great IN TOWN !!! Get off the beaten path (and you don't go far to get there) and you'll see "no service" here in West Virginia. The loaded handgun should work every time. The cell phone maybe. Pull out a cell phone and get it stuck you know where. Pull out a pistol and usually get respect and if you don't get it then use it and earn it.
 

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GUN or CELL PHONE ?

Slug-Gunner,

Given a choice, I will use my situational awareness to spot a dicey situation before I walk into it and avoid it altogether. Plan B is to find a tactically-sound position and call for the calvalry. However, if I am forced to I will use a weapon without hesitation.
 

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GUN or CELL PHONE ?

good post sluggunner--thet is what gets me-i think i know what i will do but it is an awsome life changeing decision isn't it. i think if it's just me--well i have backed out for higher ground once--if its me and somebody else--i don't know if i would have done that--i just don't know.
blessings
 

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CCW Responsibility

Even though I may have sounded a little curt in the "CCW Mindset" message, I too believe as an armed CCW carrier, I also have a responsibility to avoid getting into situations that might "force the issue", if possible. As others have pointed out, this means "Situational Awareness" or being aware of your surroundings. In some cases it may been going back inside and even calling 911 for assistance rather than jumping headlong into a situation you may not understand.

About the worst thing you can get involved in is a "domestic dispute". It is also the most dangerous, because even though one party may be being abused by the other, jumping into the fray can sometimes end with both of the original parties turning on you as a "common enemy". Many times a law enforcement officer has had a spouse jump on his back and attack him because he was having to use "force" to arrest her husband who had just finished severely beating her.

If it means walking to the other side of the street to avoid walking into the middle of a group of loud or suspicious looking individuals, then do so. If it means going back into a store or restaurant until the situation improves or more people are present, then do so. If you have to walk to your vehicle in an empty or darkened parking area, have your keys in your weak side hand and access to your CCW clear, if needed. Get into the vehicle quickly and lock the doors immediately and leave the area as quickly as possible.... DO NOT LOITER.

Always carry yourself in an alert and confident manner. Even though you may not notice it, others do. Thugs want an "easy victim" and will often by-pass those who will LOOK DIRECTLY AT THEM when approaching them (it also means you know what they look like in case you have to identify them later). Be alert at all times when you are in strange or unfamiliar surroundings. If possible, retreat and try to get assistance. If this is not possible, immediately get that CCW Mindset into gear and start to develop and implement a defensive strategy. Seek obstacles or other items to place between you and your potential attackers.... it may slow them down or hinder them to your advantage. If being approached by mulitiple persons try to determine which one might present the biggest threat to you or the closest individual. The main thing is TO BE DECISIVE IN YOUR ACTIONS. Don't hesitate, maintain your confidence and "be the one in charge of the situation", not them.

A lot of RESPONSIBILITY goes along with having a CCW. Having a gun with you at all times means that your decisions can be very critical and taking a person's life isn't something to take lightly. I say that because when you've made the decision to "draw and fire" your gun, whether in the home or on the street, you SHOULD NOT use "Warning Shots", or "Shoot to Wound". If the situation DEMANDS THAT YOU TAKE ACTION AND FIRE, THEN YOU "SHOOT TO STOP".... THIS MEANS TO AIM FOR "CENTER MASS" (or the chest area). If the person is armed with a "lethal force" weapon, then you should continue to fire until the "threat" is stopped. You SHOULD NOT "shoot and evaluate" between shots (this might come back to haunt you later).

If you are FORCED TO SHOOT, you should not be "over talkitive" when the police arrive. If possible, try to defer any general comments until you can confer with a lawyer. ANYTHING YOU SAY can and will be used in court against you should you have an over-zealous prosecutor. (Much like the New Yorker who recently shot a burgler in his apartment that was entering his childs room when he confronted him after arming himself. The intruder then approached him and he fired on the intruder, killing him.) We can go into more detail on "after-the-fact" discussion later.

:roll: :twisted: :? :eek: :wink:
 

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Re: Good reply Slug-gunner

Daveinthebush said:
In Vietnam we were told to stop someone: "Bang, Bang, Bang, Dugli (stop)"
Or was that: Dungli, bang, bang, bang. We kept getting confused over there!
I believe it was "Dung-lai", Bang; "Dung-lai", Bang; "Dung-lai", Bang.... OK, they stopped!
Been there.... done that! ('68-'70, LZ Bronco/Duc-Pho, Quang-Nai Province)

:twisted: :roll: :shock: :eek: :D
 

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Hey there vet!

Yea I did that from 70-72. Beautiful country, lots of animals, no seasons, no bag limits and no weapon restrictions.

My standard answer if a body is found on my property in the morning that shouldn't be there would be: Hey he had that knife there next to him, acted in an agressive manner, looked like he was on drugs and I was afraid for my life. :shock:
 

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GUN or CELL PHONE ?

slug-gunner
in apsolutely no way were you curt in your answer--maybe i should apologize for the way i answered. i agree with you.
in different times and different places we acted/reacted as the situation warranted. in future times we may be required to make some of those same decisions again--my point and it is just me, my thoughts for me--i hope i make good decisions. what was done in a different time-ihope-will not influence me to reciprocate at this time with that mindset. as i said life is full of life changing decisions-not all which we have the time/or take the time -to think about or appreciate fully. i hope, for me, that as i think about my responsibilities the conclusions i reach are correct.
but then we must live with those actions-this is what i wish for me to be able to do--live with my decisions.
blessings
 

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cell phone vs gun

I totally agree with slug-gunner. I live in South Carolina (Orangeburg County) A year or so ago there was an article in the newspaper that our county PER CAPITA was second to Washington DC for violent crimes. I have forgotten my cell phone before but NEVER my pistol.
 

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GUN or CELL PHONE ?

I agree totally with xmnr53, both are useful. I never really considered how important the cell could be until I read Ken Hackathorn's column in American Handgunner, where he posed this situation. Consider you draw on a would-be attacker you run across while out of your house (he used a parking garage). The attacker walks off, you think you've won. 30 minutes later, the cops have you in handcuffs in response to an anonymous tip about "a madman with a handgun." If you have to, use your gun. Regardless of the outcome, call the cops afterward. If such an incident occurs away from home, the bad guys can beat you to the phone call, making you a victim afterall.
 

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GUN or CELL PHONE ?

Personally, I will need to vote "Both"!
 

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Which is better?

Fellas: The real answer is both. Truthfully, no one I am aware of has ever defended themselves successfully with a cell-phone. Firearms are often, but regrettably, the most appropriate tool for self defense. While the Hackathorn article was absolutely correct we need to apply that sort of common sense and civic responsibility to our own actions.

Bravado, experience, false bravado and heroics aside, times have changed. Those of us who carry handgun for defense hope we never have to use them or hope we never have to use them again but if we do, whether it is a shoot to survive or a no-shoot situation, we need to take immediate follow-up action to safeguard ourselves from future liability, including rough handling by local Police, social disdain by local judges and possible lawsuit by an agrieved family.

We carry the gun to shoot to live, if we have to. It is our ethical, legal, and moral obligation and social responsibility to immediately contact the nearest LEO whenever we have had to introduce a firearm into a possibly deadly situation. We need to be aware of and accept that notion if we intend to go armed in our own defense. No matter how much I would like to, I simply can't just shoot'em and stuff'em in a hole, brush the whole thing off and head out for a beer and a burger. Not any more. Not in this day and age, and certainly not as a responsible citizen.

I absolutely hate having to be put into handcuffs, treated like a criminal myself, go through a firearms check, fingerprinting and picture taking and suffer the arrogance and stupidity of the local PD but in the end I walk, and walk with my gun, whether they like it or not. The other guy doesn't. The PD may villify my actions and off-load all their disdain for card carrying CCW holders but you have to expect at least that. I simply quiet their fervor with the question - how long would it have taken you to get there if I had been able to survive long enough to call for assistance.

My last response to this question was far too frivolous. I hope I've clarified my position. Mikey.
 
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