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Let's start out with:

Romans 10:17 (NAB) "Thus faith comes from what is heard, and what is heard comes through the word of Christ. (KJV) "So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God."
 

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William,

This is a good place to start.

Your gonna like me for a moment....this moment.

We all come to a "spiritual epiphany" cast (a wooing) toward us....
..... and emanating directly from God, the Spirit, (though we may not initially realize that "it" starts with Him).
..... who encourages us to respond to Jesus the Christ....
..... for who HE (the Spirit) says that HE (Jesus) is.
....."No one comes to Christ/God unless the Spirit draws him (man)."

There are subsequent parts....
.....and a couple of those parts are also made available by the Spirit....
.....based upon what Christ "did" upon the Cross.....
.....i.e. Our Primary Supplier of Faith & Grace gives us the desire and ability to trust Him. Eph 2:8,9

Generically, "In the beginning God...." is how things are started.....
.....including "How we believe."

I have to go away for a few days....I'm gonna be interested in how this Bible Study hammers out.


JonJon
 

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I do not ever remember not believing, but I remember the old german preacher pointing at the congregaton and saying something abut hellfire and brimstone.
I never really had any desire to be toast.

Bob
 

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Bob.....

Interesting that you mentioned the fact that "hot weather" prompted a wise decision on your part. My early years in the faith placed me front of a few itinerants with the same jag....they sobered me before I had time to become a drunk short-term thinking.

JonJon
 

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woodchukhntr said:
Let's start out with:

Romans 10:17 (NAB) "Thus faith comes from what is heard, and what is heard comes through the word of Christ. (KJV) "So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God."
I'll have to go with Romans Chapter 10 verse 17 also. Good one woodchukhntr
 

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williamlayton said:
Explain heard/hearing.
Blessings
Rom 10:17 So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ.

Today that could include hearing, reading, and studying.

Christ sent the Holy Spirit to give the gospel message through the mouths of the Apostles to those that would listen, Eph 3:3-5. Today that same message is written for or learning in our Bibles.

Paul told the those in Thessalonica that He (Christ) called them through the gospel that they might gain the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ, 2 Thes 2:14. (see also Jn 6:44,45)

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There were some that believed in Christ, but still would not be saved,Jn 12:42. (still true today)

They would not receive His sayings, Jn 12:48.

[That is why Jn 3:16 says "should" and not "shall" as the NIT erroneously puts it.]
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Some will hear thru reading, by the spirit who gives hearing.
It is a real question, BTW.
There is a gap in intellectual faith and knowing faith.
Avoiding the fire--can be an unction and doesn't always lead to this faith.
It is a tough question and it does involve more than we think and is simple at the same time.
Blessings
 

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William, I once knew a man that was an atheist at heart; well educated in the sciences which skewed his views even more. An old football injury finally required major knee surgery and there was no getting around it as his knee was locked and a 45 deg. angle. While layed up for six weeks, he decided to read a Bible just to understand the other side. There was much that he did not understand for he was not familiar with the archaic language of the KJV. He found a NASB and restudied the gospel accounts with the New Testament comparing both versions. After much study, he concluded that perhaps he had been wrong, that there was too much evidence that there was a Jesus and He did come to earth. This whole time he discussed it with no one, but studied himself. Soon afterwards he sought out a preacher that would baptise him for the remission of sins as Peter had preached to those in the first gospel sermon in Jerusalem, Acts 2:38, and as Jesus had told Nicodemus, Jn 3:5. His faith has grown steadily as his knowlege from the study of God's word has increased over these last twenty something years. This man was certainly called by the word of God, by reading and study. I am that man. A man who is sorry for his past, but thankful for the grace and love of God.
 

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williamlayton said:
Some will hear thru reading, by the spirit who gives hearing. TRUE [/color]

It is a real question, BTW. TRUE [/color]

There is a gap in intellectual faith and knowing faith. TRUE [/color]

Avoiding the fire--can be an unction and doesn't always lead to this faith. TRUE [/color]

It is a tough question and it does involve more than we think and is simple at the same time. TRUE [/color]

Blessings

Good stuff Gary!

And William......how 'bout this?....

Hearing involves an acceptance (a receptive attitude - Heart-)......

That responds with a spirit of trust, reliance, and adherence to....

What the Spirit is communicating about Christ to the individual.


JonJon
 

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Discussion Starter #12
I was blessed Gary.
It is a hard thing too communicate--this believing part.
There is no doubt an acceptance.
What is there to acceptance after believing.-----If I am understood correctly.
A couple of "light bulb jokes" too make a subtle point.
How many atomicity researchers does it take too change a light bulb---
1) Too late--they just finished.
2) How would we know-I am always unaware when they come to do this.
Blessings
 

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An important, perhaps indispensable, ingredient;

" No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him, and I will raise him up on the last day." (John6:44)
 

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ironglow said:
An important, perhaps indispensable, ingredient;

" No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him, and I will raise him up on the last day." (John6:44)
I'll say!

JonJon
 

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JonJon said:
The Father speaks to people and.....
Encourages them to listen to the message formed around Jesus Christ.

JonJon
I would only add that it is (the verse) also speaking of a "SPIRITUAL ATTRACTION" in our heart, to seek God.

Good answer, JonJon
 

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Dee said:
JonJon said:
The Father speaks to people and.....
Encourages them to listen to the message formed around Jesus Christ.

JonJon
I would only add that it is (the verse) also speaking of a "SPIRITUAL ATTRACTION" in our heart, to seek God.

Good answer, JonJon

Dee,

What you have said about SPIRITUAL ATTRACTION" to seek God from our heart in need...
Is so true...
There truly is a God shaped vacuum in the heart of every man that can only be satisfied by God made known by Jesus Christ, the Son.
God pulls the strings.
Seeking comes due to Divine Design and Divine Appeal.
I was reading the book "Wild at Heart" again last nite and the author reaffirms your thot over and over again.

JonJon
 

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Williamlayton, God bless you in seeking the truth. The matter of belief is really a matter of trust(faith). Its one thing to believe in God, but it is definitely quite another thing to place one's trust or faith in God. We must be in complete agreement with God in our relationship with Him in order to have faith in Him.

First we must realize the holiness and righteousness of God. God cannot tolerate sin, or unrighteousness. He cannot have anything or anyone sinful in His presence. The Bible calls him a consuming fire of holiness Hebrews 12:29. Only those who are righteous shall stand in the presence of God. Its true that God is a God of love, but He is also holy and must judge all things in righteousness.

Next we must realize our own standing with God. God has given us the very standard of righteousness that He will use to judge every man when they die. It is by this standard whether or not we will be counted as righteous. That standard is His holy law-- Ten Commandments(Exodus 20).

So ask yourself "have I kept the Ten Commandments". Let's go thru some of them.

Have you ever told a lie? If so, this violates the 9th commandment, Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor. So what does this make you if you tell a lie? A liar. God's word says that all liars shall have their part in the Lake of Fire.

Have you ever stolen something regardless of the value, or how small or when you were a child? If so this violates the 6th Commandment, "Thou shalt not steal". This makes you a thief, and the Bible says no thief shall enter the kingdom of God. The value of the thing stolen or the color of the lie told does not matter to God, its the fact that you were willing to do these things in your heart.

Have you ever used God's name in vain? The Bible calls this blasphemy and God says He will hold no one guiltless who uses His name in vain. This violates the 3rd Commandment.

Lets look at one more, have you ever looked at a woman with lust? Of course we all have, But Listen to what Jesus says in Matthew 5:27, "But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart". This violates the 7th Commandment "Thou shalt not commit adultery". God not only looks at our actions, but He sees what's in our hearts.

If you answered yes to these questions, then by your own admission, you are a lying thief, and an adulterous blasphemer in your heart. This is how God sees us-- lawbreakers. His wrath abides on you and the Bible says that you are an enemy to Him by your sin. Who of us can say that we never broken even one of God's laws? None of us, and the Bible says that if we even break just one we are guilty of breaking the whole Law(James 2:10)

So if you were to suddenly die, and God judged you by this standard, would you be innocent or guilty? Of course we would all be guilty. Would you go to Heaven or ****? If you say Heaven, why? God cannot overlook sin. God must be a righteous and holy judge. If He were to overlook your sin He would topple from His throne of holiness. The truth is you'd end up in ****. God must punish sin. Does this concern you? It certainly concerns me, I don't want you to go to ****.

So what are we to do? We are all guilty and **** bound sinners. How can we escape? This is where the matter of trusting God comes in. God out of His mercy and love for you, made a way for you to escape **** and be found righteous on the day of Judgment.

God loves you so much that He sent Jesus to take your place and receive the punishment that you deserve for your sin. Jesus stepped down from Heaven, became a man, and gave up His lifes blood in a cruel, horrible, death on the cross to take your punishment for your sin upon Himself and satisfy God's wrath against you. Then He rose from the dead so that you can have eternal life. Jesus ioffers to you HIs righteousness. Jesus is the only person who has ever lived a sinless life and is able to satisfy the demands of God's holy Law. Jesus offers to you HIs righteousness so that you can be found righteous on Judgment Day.

Do you know how to receive that righteousness? It is by repentance and trusting in Him. To repent means to turn away from sin. Turn away from all the sin in your life and heart and turn fully to God and His will for you. Surrender yourself to God, turn away from sin. Put all of your faith and trust upon Jesus death on the cross. Fully depend on His death to satisfy God's wrath against you.

The Bible says that the instant you repent and place your trust in Jesus Christ, God will give you a new heart with new desires. He will transform and change you from the inside out. His Holy Spirit will take up residence in your heart. It is a change that is so radical that Jesus called it being born again. This is what it means to be saved. Being saved means that the Holy Spirit of God lives inside of you, and on the day of Judgment, God will see Jesus's righteousness instead of your sin. Jesus told a very religious and faithful man that He must be born again to enter the kingdom of God.

I want to ask you, are you born again? Does God's Spiirit live in your heart? I'm not asking if you prayed to receive Christ, or went to an alter call, I'm asking does the Holy Spirit live within you? This is what it means to believe. It's a matter of trust.

If you are unsure whether or not you are born again, all you have to do is go to God and talk to Him about it. There are no special words or prayers to say, just pour your heart out to Him. He will hear you.

I urge you if you aren't born again, don't wait another second to get right with God. We never know when we might die and be lost for all eternity. If you have any questions feel free to e-mail me I will be glad to answer them.

Sam
 

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Discussion Starter #20
JonD--
Thanks for the concern and the words.
Yes--I am a believer.

This believing part is---too me---the gift. Receiving= is God's part of the gift---the gift of hearing and believing.
God gives the information and the ability to receive.
This should create some stir and I probably will have need too say this in another way.
irrepressible is a good word.
NOW---let's not get all defensive. This is my conclusion based on my study. You certainly have the right too see it differently.
Blessings
 
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