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Park litterature for the Barron river in Algonquin park indicates that a local pack drives deer off a 100 meter cliff in the winter months, then feeds on the carcasses on the frozen river below.
The intellegence of this animal is mind bogling.
How does one dead wolf=five (or more) live deer sound?
 

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Sounds like possible Jail time, Ha Ha....

I guess it depends on population. Deer are thick as flies some places and are a natural food source, wheras in some places Wolf ar just making a comeback and are protected, but if they are over hunting and becoming too abundant for an area, then we are right back to where we were years ago...the reason they were hunted nearly to extinction in the first place. They are definately intelligent, and an efficient predator/ killer. Fish and game cannot protect them to the point of losing all of our other game. It's like Bears down here. The old timers used to hunt them with dogs and baits, now we cant do either, so not many people hunt them anymore, and they are becomeing pests. They do millions of dollars of damage in orchards alone...they are going to have to change again and either bring back dogs, or baiting or both. The rules dont always work for a permanent solution.
 

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Robert,

You are so right about black bears. Bringing back dog hunting and baiting may do it but there just doesn't seem to be as many hunters interested in hunting bears. I think that states where they only issue one bear tag per hunter per year maybe should think about issuing two tags per hunter. Dropping the price of the tags(permits) could also help. Maybe because there isn't enough "glory" in taking black bears is why their popularity has dropped. We got "BUCKMASTERS" maybe what we need is "BEARMASTERS"? I for one think that bears are one of the greatest game animals on Earth. Great trophy, great eating. I don't hunt bears with dogs but if other want to I'm all for it. Also if a hunter wants to sit up in a stand with the smell of stinking bait in his nose is the way to do it then go for it. I prefer the spot and stalk method. As far as wolves go I believe their needs to be controls on them where needed but I wouldn’t want to see them disappear either. I have heard the sound of wolves on the hunt and to me that is the “Call Of The Wild”. Lawdog
 

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I agree Lawdog, They are beautiful, but if they need thining

That is just a fact of life. If they are going to manage game animals, that should be part of it. They manage OUR hunting so that we dont completely deplete a species....if Wolves are over-hunting, that means there are too many for the food source and they need to be managed also. No easy answers. Plus they got the libs yelling in their ears also and they have to balance that at the same time.
 

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Wolves are smarter than you and me combined. Yes you can trick them if there hungary or curious, but these animals are some of the best predators on the earth. Bears are a real close second (OK, maybe tied) as ultimate predator. Up here as most would agree, atleast those interested in hunting up here, we have a moose problem. Yes wolves are to blame but the number of bears are also a reason for our problems.

Back to the subject, wolves are damn smart and very efficiant killers.
 

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Just to put my two cents in...

I think wolves are awesome predators. I too have heard them on the hunt (Algonguin wolves at that) and it's riveting to listen to. In the 'big country' areas surrounding Algonquin park, I think wolves are a very natural and excellent part of the environment. I really think that nature will balance itself out in areas that are as wild as Central and Northern Ontario. I also think that if deer populations drop because of predation, our tough luck. We're predators too and if we have a few lean years because the wolves are plentiful, it's not a big deal, the deer will rebound. Animals have a natural cycle, and as hunters we factor into that cycle.

I don't think there's a problem at the moment though. Over the last few years during deer and moose camp near the park, I've seen far more deer than I've seen in a long time. Too many actually...I think they're negatively affecting the moose population in the area.

I'm not a bleeding heart wolf activist, but I've heard stories of people shooting wolves because they're there and it really burns me. The wolf has just as much right to be there as we do.

Bluenose
 

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the only reason these animals have to be managed is because of us. Not only wolves and deer, i'm talking the whole she-bang. We move in on their territory, knock down trees, build homes, fast food joints, this and that and whatever else.
They are all congregating in the same woods and it makes them all seem so abundant, but in reality there are the same amount, just less space.

Now to the other side:
Not too long ago the PA game commision released many coyotes to an area not far from me. Their reason in doing so- Oversized deer population. They deer are damaging crops and so on.
I have one thing to say, if there was such an oversized deer population, then why aren't the kill #'s growing?
Last year the 3 point or better law was placed on nearly every county in PA. I understand that kill #'s fell short because of this (answered my question above) BUT, aren't the coyotes that were released there going to kill the deer that We hunters were forbid BY LAW allowed to shoot?
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Ever seen the way a coyote kills a larger animal like a deer? Not pleasant. The politicians need their heads read.
 

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:D I think wolves are very intelligent. Most canines are. They are also very good predators. I don't mind good predators. There are probably some reading this post.
It sounds like they need some wolves in Pennsylvania to keep coyotes and deer in check. Maybe we can trade you some of ours.
Wolves are one of the most politiccal issues in conservation today with many people far pro and far con. I don't mind sharing deer with them but they better leave my dog alone.
 

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Freddogs, you wont like them when they desimate your deer herd like they have in areas of the Upper Penninsula. I live in a town of about 8 thousand (right on the Wisconsin border) and we have had them right in town. They kill everything -contrary to what is the politically correct propaganda.
 

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:D longwinters, I bet we have more wolves here in WI than you got. I lived in northern Mn where they always had wolves. Don't worry, when the wolves eat up most of the deer their population growth will slow down. :p
 

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I swear if they'd run off some of the coyotes I'd welcome some wolves around here. They're becoming such a nuissance around here it's pathetic. One WMA hunt unit is crawling with them (and hogs. don't mind them as much though as they eat a lot better ;)); hardly any deer to be found there. I'm all for animals surviving and all, but these little buggers aren't native to this habitat. I generally will shoot the coyotes on sight (no closed season and no bag limit). As to bears . . . to tell the truth, I've never seen one in the wild (zoos only). Sure there are a couple in this area, but they're pretty rare and there is no open season except in the very tip of the state (the very small portion of SC where the Appalatian mountains run through).
 

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Nobody will believe me, my mother, or my sister...But believe it or not, we actually SAW 3 wolves in Northern Maine chasing a deer across a field!!! YIKES!!! If I ever spot them during hunting season, I'll probably pop them and say I thought they were world-record size coyotes, or just say I'm doing the moose a favor...

Too be the leader of Maine Citizens for Fair Bear couldn't have an 'encounter' in which nature takes it's course... :) :lol:

Now to just wonder if a member will have an encounter with a BEAR.... :?
 

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wolfs

prehistoric wolfs used to run mammoths off cliffs...

i was hunting canada few years back calling coyotes in, shooting my 17 rem, and this huge black and silver wolf showed up uninvited, dropped that little 4100 fps bee into his ear, now hes gotta new day job, makin like a rug in my den...wasnt so hard to do... dont let the mystiqe get you buffaloed.. they can be had just like coyotes...
 

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We don't need Wolves, we have Mountion Lions to kill our Coyote and Deer. Nothing like having a 80 lb. cat jump from a tree with 4 razor sharp hooks on each paw. That would be enough to need an underwear change.
 

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John Y Cannuck - I agree with you about politicians completely. This past winter I took 5 coyotes after they had brought down a whitetail doe right outside my picture window. They kept coming back for more dinner and found me waiting for them. The fawn loss due to coyote predation in this area is near 85%. You are right, it is not a pretty sight.

MG Morden: Wolves won't necessarily run off the coyotes. We have had a large Canadian Gray Wolfe in this area for the past couple of years but haven't been able to get a shot at him. Are they smart - you bet they are.

The coyotes we have here in NYS are a cross between the western coyote and the Canadian Gray Wolf and are about 50% bigger and heavier than their western cousins. Solitary Gray Wolf males looking to establish a territory may well kill off the dominant male in a coyote pack and dominate the pack himself. In this case we may wind up with an even larger cross-breed of coyote/wolf mix and that will not bode well. When they don't feel like chasing and dragging down a whitetail, they will take as many household pets as they can.

One of my neighbors used to jog up and down the road - she would always take her Golden Retriever with her and thought it cute that there would always be these 3 cute coyotes watching her run - they weren't watching her, they were watching her dog, a possibility for an invitation to dinner. She never quite undestood that. One of my neighbors feels he positively identified one of those coyotes as a Wolf and is none too happy about that. Neither am I.

I will live and let live as long as they don't bother me. Once they bother me though, the gloves are off. Mikey.
 

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I think wolves up here would be benificial in some small areas, but the wolves range is too large to just affect these small areas. Take for instance my cedar swamp. The browse line is eight feet in the air and there are no cedar saplings of any kind on the ground. My swamp isn't even in a deer yarding area. The deer are making it so that it won't regenerate. Once my cedar is gone, it will be gone forever. They won't leave any of the immature trees alone because the feeding pressure is so high. The DNR has estimated over 80 deer per square mile in some areas, if you can believe them. I would love to see some predators thin out the deer on my land. With less deer around they will have much less competition for food. The deer that do survive will be the strongest and best fed, and will grow bigger, so I believe.

Like I said though, the wolves will range beyond my swamp, and then they may not do the good I think they will.
 

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My $.02; Wolves, bears, Mt. lions, etc. have no rights and own no property according to my reading of the constitution which mentions ,"We the people". I do however think we have an obligation as a "Christian"nation to be good stewards of all our natural resources. I also believe all predators need to be hunted and made to fear mankind in order that WE stay on top of the food chain and manager of our God given natural resources.
 

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Speaking of wolves, I guess some Ontario man was possibly killed by a wolf pack up in northern saskatchewan. The 22 year old guy was walking alone in a remote part of the region. His buddys went to look for him when he didn't return on time and found his body. It wouldn't surprise me really if wolves did it. There are so few people up there the wild animals might not have that inherent fear of us. Still, look at how many traffic accidents there are in the US. One wolf attack makes the canadian news, one traffic accident might not even make the local paper. There are lots of dangerous things in this world but they all have their benifits as well.
 
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